What is the word "THAT" referring to in Ephesians 2: 8,9.
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In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith, and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God and not of works lest any man should boast.
That is a more literal translation than the KING Jimmy...Gramatically it points at FAITH which is the GIFT that saves.......IMV
God has dealt to every man a MEASURE OF FAITH....and NOW ABIDES FAITH, HOPE and LOVE
What does God look for? FAITH
That is a more literal translation than the KING Jimmy...Gramatically it points at FAITH which is the GIFT that saves.......IMV
God has dealt to every man a MEASURE OF FAITH....and NOW ABIDES FAITH, HOPE and LOVE
What does God look for? FAITH
"That" means the Faith, Paul just mentioned in the sentence. Many of my Christian Brethren could NEVER answer the fundamental question in many threads here, if YOUR Faith ISN'T a gift from God, where does it come from?
And YES, I'm fully aware that Scripture says faith comes by hearing. But that in NO way explains WHY some hear and don't have faith to believe. I have given the Gospel to many strangers, friends, and family alike. SOME believe through faith, and most don't.
So. Did YOU, using your intellect and strength dredge up out of your being the faith to believe, or did God give it to you, EXACTLY how Paul, whom God knocked off his horse and blinded, say gave it?
And YES, I'm fully aware that Scripture says faith comes by hearing. But that in NO way explains WHY some hear and don't have faith to believe. I have given the Gospel to many strangers, friends, and family alike. SOME believe through faith, and most don't.
So. Did YOU, using your intellect and strength dredge up out of your being the faith to believe, or did God give it to you, EXACTLY how Paul, whom God knocked off his horse and blinded, say gave it?
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:4-10)
the 'that' which is not of ourselves but the gift of God refers to everything from v.4 to v.8succinctly put "that" = {by grace you have been saved through faith}
but salvation by grace through faith = the richness of God's mercy = His great love = quickening from death = joining us with Jesus = raising us = the exceeding riches of His grace = His everlasting lovingkindness = Christ = our faith = the Way = the Gate = the Door = our Sure Hope = Truth = Life
which is why Ephesians has more than one verse
-- there is much to saygrace and faith are the answer. the Answer is Christ, and He is the tangible grace of God, and He is the both the substance and the object of our faith, and the working of it: we who live in grace by this faith are "His workmanship"
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Although I don't care for the format in which you have framed this discussion, I agree that the answer is 'salvation', which is not by works. Standard English grammatical rules would point to "faith" as the nearest noun to which "that" would refer. and "saved" is not even a noun. Neither "grace" nor "faith" are spoken of as being "not by works" elsewhere in Paul's letters, but salvation certainly is.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
What is the subject, saved, and it is a gift of God, and no one can earn that salvation apart from God, and doing works is trying to earn your way to heaven.
Like the Old Testament physical ordinances will not save you.
And Islam and their works will not save them.
And any other works people do to try to obtain heaven will not save them if it is not having faith in Jesus, and confessing Him.
But the subject is being saved, which is a gift of God, for we cannot earn that.
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
What is the subject, saved, and it is a gift of God, and no one can earn that salvation apart from God, and doing works is trying to earn your way to heaven.
Like the Old Testament physical ordinances will not save you.
And Islam and their works will not save them.
And any other works people do to try to obtain heaven will not save them if it is not having faith in Jesus, and confessing Him.
But the subject is being saved, which is a gift of God, for we cannot earn that.
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the Pharisees practiced prayer three times a day morning midday and evening. more than likely Saul was in beginning or in midday prayer.
they all had fallen down mentioned in acts and Jesus spoke in Hebrew language though some translations say Aramaic. this could of very well be the reason why no one else among his companions knew the language.
Acts 26
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
He probably is going to say on the road to Damascus, but I don't recall anything specifically mentioning that they were on horseback. It doesn't say they weren't either. If I recall correctly it just says that Paul saw a light brighter than the sun and when they fallen to the ground, or maybe the bowed down, that they heard voice speak unto him yet seeing no man.
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I would say you are right as far as the fact he practiced them, but again the scriptures do not specifically say either way so I can't say you aren't right about they were not in the act practicing them at the time of the visitation. Except it seems they already would have been kneeling down wouldn't they?
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