Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Jackson123]

And you're welcome to your opinion! A lot of people would disagree with you, including a lot of Protestants.

And you can continue to say that Christians who have a different opinion than you cannot be Christians. Imo, that creates unnecessary division in the body of Christ.

There are also some things in the Bible that I think will cause problems with that opinion
Romans 10: 3 For being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they didn't subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

Paul says that they are ignorant of God's righteousness, I agree with that! But he doesn't say they are trying to worship a different God.

Like I say, different opinion and attacking Jesus as a God have different value.
Attacking Jesus as a God mean not worship true god

Judaism hate Jesus to the point almost like Muslim. In indonesia most Muslim family disown their family member if they convert to Christian. They hate Christian and don't believe Jesus as god

 

[Jackson123]

Sorry, I can't make sense out of your words there. Please reword, if you wish.

So you don't believe Holy Spirit able talk to individual?
How they talk to group of people? Does Holy Spirit appear in the church service and talk to people?

 

[Jackson123]

Absolutely! so are you considering that God gives the correct interpretation of the scriptures to a collection of individuals?

I never heard Holy Spirit appear in the church service and talk to collection of people

 

[Dan_473]

One among many true god

Is the eagle god the Creator that they know about from "rain and sky"?

If not, which one do you say is?

 

[Jackson123]

Very possibly! But before we can say which is the interpretation true and which is false, we have to have a standard by which we're going to judge the interpretations!

To judge the interpretation we use bible.
to use Bible mean to interprate bible.
If individual prohibit to interprate bible than every time leader want money, they lie to individual, make lie interpretation, i.e. Forgiveness on sale, give me $ 1000 you will go to heaven.

 

[Dan_473]

Like I say, different opinion and attacking Jesus as a God have different value.

These are Jews we are talking about, here.
I agree that they are attacking Jesus. Imo, that doesn't mean they are worshipping a different God from Christians.
You are welcome to think they are worshipping a different god. I think there are some Bible verses that indicate that they are worshiping the same God, even though the Bible also says that they attack Jesus!

 

[Jackson123]

Is the eagle god the Creator that they know about from "rain and sky"?

If not, which one do you say is?

I am not sure if Indian believe there is god not able to create something

 

[Jackson123]

These are Jews we are talking about, here.
I agree that they are attacking Jesus. Imo, that doesn't mean they are worshipping a different God from Christians.
You are welcome to think they are worshipping a different god. I think there are some Bible verses that indicate that they are worshiping the same God, even though the Bible also says that they attack Jesus!

God make rule how to worship Him

The rule is worship god by worship Jesus.

So if one say worship god but not worship Jesus, he is lie, and not worship true god.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

 

[Dan_473]

Like I say, different opinion and attacking Jesus as a God have different value.
Attacking Jesus as a God mean not worship true god

Maybe I should add that the idea that Jews as a group attack Jesus is not an opinion. That's clear from the scriptures!

Some Christians are of the opinion that Jews worship a different God than Christians.
Other Christians say that Jews and Christians worship the same God.

The thing I'm concerned about is that you are saying that Christians with that second opinion are actually not Christians at all, not members of the body of Christ.

 

[Dan_473]

So you don't believe Holy Spirit able talk to individual?
How they talk to group of people? Does Holy Spirit appear in the church service and talk to people?

The holy Spirit certainly can talk to an individual!

But does the holy Spirit guide the church, the body of Christ one individual at a time? Or as a group?

If the holy Spirit guides as a group, I think it would look like this
Acts 15: They appointed Paul and Barnabas, and some others of them, to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15: 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.

Acts 15: 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us

The council of the apostles in elders felt that their conclusion was the product of the holy Spirit.

 

[Dan_473]

I never heard Holy Spirit appear in the church service and talk to collection of people

Right, but I'm sure you are familiar with the council in Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15.

 

[Dan_473]

To judge the interpretation we use bible

Do you mean you use your personal interpretation that you believe the holy Spirit gave you to judge another interpretation?

 

[Dan_473]

I am not sure if Indian believe there is god not able to create something

Well, the Navajo who see God's witness in the rain and sky. How do they talk about God? Do they use a name? Or something else?

Also, isn't it something like 3 a.m. in Indonesia?

 

[Dan_473]

God make rule how to worship Him

The rule is worship god by worship Jesus.

So if one say worship god but not worship Jesus, he is lie, and not worship true god.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Right, Jesus is the only way to get to God!
And Jesus is the only way to be saved!

But imo, there's a difference between getting to God/being saved and worshipping God.

Do you believe that in order to worship God, you must have accurate knowledge about every aspect of God?

 

[Jackson123]

Maybe I should add that the idea that Jews as a group attack Jesus is not an opinion. That's clear from the scriptures!

Some Christians are of the opinion that Jews worship a different God than Christians.
Other Christians say that Jews and Christians worship the same God.

The thing I'm concerned about is that you are saying that Christians with that second opinion are actually not Christians at all, not members of the body of Christ.

No Christian believe true god teach people to attack Jesus.

 

[Jackson123]

The holy Spirit certainly can talk to an individual!

But does the holy Spirit guide the church, the body of Christ one individual at a time? Or as a group?

If the holy Spirit guides as a group, I think it would look like this
Acts 15: They appointed Paul and Barnabas, and some others of them, to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15: 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.

Acts 15: 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us

The council of the apostles in elders felt that their conclusion was the product of the holy Spirit.

On that even, Holy Spirit talk to individual, than that individual talk to a group of people.

Holy Spirit not appear to that group, but use individual to talk to them. And Holy Spirit able talk to every body, can be trough pastor or direct to a person. Apostle Paul learn a lot from Holy Spirit

Act 16
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.

Holy Spirit speak to Paul individually not to church.
But it may on the other occasion Holy Spirit talk to a group through individual.
Not up to us, up to the Holy spirit

 

[Jackson123]

Right, Jesus is the only way to get to God!
And Jesus is the only way to be saved!

But imo, there's a difference between getting to God/being saved and worshipping God.

Do you believe that in order to worship God, you must have accurate knowledge about every aspect of God?

There is minimum requirement to worship god

And that is believe Jesus as a God than worship god through Jesus. Otherwise you can't worship god

Jesus is the only way to the father

 

[Dan_473]

No Christian believe true god teach people to attack Jesus.

Right, and that's why people usually go on to say that the Jews are wrong about Jesus.

Maybe talking about this Bible passage can help us understand each other better
Romans 10: 1 Brothers, my heart's desire and my prayer to God is for Israel, that they may be saved. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Two things we can see right off:
It is possible to have a zeal for the true God and not be saved.
It is possible to have a zeal for the true God and reject Jesus.

In your mind, how are those things possible?
Especially the second one, how is it possible to reject Jesus and at the same time have a zeal for the true God?

 

[Dan_473]

On that even, Holy Spirit talk to individual, than that individual talk to a group of people.

Holy Spirit not appear to that group, but use individual to talk to them. And Holy Spirit able talk to every body, can be trough pastor or direct to a person. Apostle Paul learn a lot from Holy Spirit

Act 16
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.

Holy Spirit speak to Paul individually not to church.
But it may on the other occasion Holy Spirit talk to a group through individual.
Not up to us, up to the Holy spirit

Good observation!
One thing I noticed is that in the vision that Paul has it is about which direction he should go on his missionary trip. It is not about doctrine.

When it is about doctrine, something that the whole church is going to have a unified teaching about, the holy Spirit speaks to the individuals as they are gathered in the council. Or at least that's when the conclusion is reached.

We also see that there were some people there who would also have had the holy Spirit leading them, because they were believers. But what those believers say is the correct teaching on the issue is not the teaching the council adopts.

Once the council adopts the decision, it looks like the entire church then follows that teaching. This maintains unity in the body of Christ, the entire body accepting the same teaching.

1 Corinthians 1: 10 Now I beg you, brothers, through the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Dan_473]

There is minimum requirement to worship god

And that is believe Jesus as a God than worship god through Jesus. Otherwise you can't worship god

Jesus is the only way to the father

When you say there is a minimum requirement for worshiping God, are you thinking of a particular scripture?
if you are thinking of the verse about Jesus is the only way to God, what leads you to believe that worshipping God is the same thing as getting to the father?