CESSATIONISM AND HEALING
- Thread starter Sudakar
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Why the need for healing after the death & resurrection of a christian, if not now? That's absurd.
Moreover concluding "healing is not guaranteed" based on sight of instances when christians were not healed is wrong as christian life is assumed to be a walk by sight rather than a walk by faith. Instances when christians were not healed are to be seen as opportunities to grow in faith and as tests of faith.
- Further, healing is clearly included in Christ's atonement as stated in Isaiah 53:4 & emphasised in Mathew 8:17. So if someone is not guaranteed of healing, his faith is little and needs to grow.
- Even after God has revealed His willingness to heal through Christ's atonement, justifying sicknesses using God's sovereignty is only a cover up for the little faith and shows reluctance to grow in faith. Talk of sovereignty without faith is empty as sovereignty works through faith.
Moreover concluding "healing is not guaranteed" based on sight of instances when christians were not healed is wrong as christian life is assumed to be a walk by sight rather than a walk by faith. Instances when christians were not healed are to be seen as opportunities to grow in faith and as tests of faith.
- Further, healing is clearly included in Christ's atonement as stated in Isaiah 53:4 & emphasised in Mathew 8:17. So if someone is not guaranteed of healing, his faith is little and needs to grow.
- Even after God has revealed His willingness to heal through Christ's atonement, justifying sicknesses using God's sovereignty is only a cover up for the little faith and shows reluctance to grow in faith. Talk of sovereignty without faith is empty as sovereignty works through faith.
Because of people like you, christians become slaves to your prayers depending for healing on you and also depend on hospitals rather than depend on Christ's atonement for their healing. Because of people like you they are stunted in faith & are unable to proclaim the gospel with boldness.
Where there are not enough medical facilities, christians become mentally depressed and sick because of people like you who distort and deny scriptures.
You are a stumbling block to christians!
Where there are not enough medical facilities, christians become mentally depressed and sick because of people like you who distort and deny scriptures.
You are a stumbling block to christians!
Urang?
Yes the fruit of a "lying spirit" false pride. It comes by seeking after wonderments, the self edifying ones .Make a noise without meaning fall backward . . .mock God .
Believers walk by faith called prophecy (sola scriptura)
No wondering needed just believe. Why marvel when one can beleive as God works in them ?
No such thing a "sign gift". The two words are not used together to form one doctrine. Spiritual gifts "unseen" , Yes. like the understanding of parables. The signified tongue of God is for believers. Sign seekers I would think would search for faith .It is the light on the path the lamp unto the feet.
Yes the fruit of a "lying spirit" false pride. It comes by seeking after wonderments, the self edifying ones .Make a noise without meaning fall backward . . .mock God .
Believers walk by faith called prophecy (sola scriptura)
No wondering needed just believe. Why marvel when one can beleive as God works in them ?
No such thing a "sign gift". The two words are not used together to form one doctrine. Spiritual gifts "unseen" , Yes. like the understanding of parables. The signified tongue of God is for believers. Sign seekers I would think would search for faith .It is the light on the path the lamp unto the feet.
I'm not sure I understand the points you are trying to make.
Firstly, Christ has redeemed his creation through the atonement. He reverses the effect of the Curse. However, this is not fully consummated until his return. At his return, the resurrection of believers will occur, and this will reverse the effect of the Curse upon their bodies.
Fat, balding, eyeglass-wearing, hearing-aid using, greying Christians attest to the fact that every man experiences the effects of the Curse, until the resurrection.
Their aging and decaying bodies expose their folly. Their preachers fill their face with botox to hide the wrinkles. They are fakes.
Their lying doctrines actually cause Christianity to be portrayed as foolish to non-believers, and causes the name of God to be blasphemed.
Additionally, they encourage Christians to give a false witness. The first chapter of Job reveals that Satan accuses believers in regards to following God only for what they can get out of Him, not love. God responds by allowing Satan to torment Job with all kinds of suffering. Job does not reject God in the face of such suffering. Therefore, Satan is proven a liar, because true believers do not pursue a deeper relationship with God only for the benefits he provides. Fake believers might do this, but not true believers.
The faith chapter, in Hebrews 11, lists many people who suffered and did not experience the kinds of rewards that people in these sorts of movements clamor for. They suffered without receiving the reward, and were commended by God for this. They are commended by God in this chapter for their faith. And many of them did not receive what they were looking for, in terms of reward, even to their death.
Additionally, it doesn't take much reading of the Bible to see that salvation in its fullest sense is achieved at Christ's return. There is an already-but-not-yet aspect to salvation, and this salvation includes giving life to moral bodies. See Romans 8.
Regarding suffering being seen as an opportunity for faith to grow, I agree with that. Ultimately, the believer may suffer until the end of his days with various health conditions and other situations. If you are saying that he reaches a certain point where he will be healed in this life, and that he must somehow develop enough faith for that to happen, I disagree with you totally. It may be God's will for him to suffer with this condtion, because it is through weakness that God's strength is more clearly displayed in the suffering individual. In human weakness, God's strength is more fully revealed.
Unfortunately, false ministries have exported their trashy theology throughout the world, and are making a lot of false claims concerning guarantees of healing. This leads to unmet expectations in a lot of people. It is common that such individuals are told that they should be healed immediately, if they had enough faith to be healed, so the fault is theirs. This is a false teaching and those that teach it are false teachers.
God may heal some individuals, and I believe he does according to his sovereign will. He knows what is best for the person spiritually.
By the way, one of the most spiritual people I know suffered great hardships. It makes me sick that Word of Faith people would claim that she wasn't very spiritual or she would have been healed. They are so shallow, that they do not understand that her continued faithfulness to God was more visible due to her suffering. In that manner, she was like Job.
Firstly, Christ has redeemed his creation through the atonement. He reverses the effect of the Curse. However, this is not fully consummated until his return. At his return, the resurrection of believers will occur, and this will reverse the effect of the Curse upon their bodies.
Fat, balding, eyeglass-wearing, hearing-aid using, greying Christians attest to the fact that every man experiences the effects of the Curse, until the resurrection.
Their aging and decaying bodies expose their folly. Their preachers fill their face with botox to hide the wrinkles. They are fakes.
Their lying doctrines actually cause Christianity to be portrayed as foolish to non-believers, and causes the name of God to be blasphemed.
Additionally, they encourage Christians to give a false witness. The first chapter of Job reveals that Satan accuses believers in regards to following God only for what they can get out of Him, not love. God responds by allowing Satan to torment Job with all kinds of suffering. Job does not reject God in the face of such suffering. Therefore, Satan is proven a liar, because true believers do not pursue a deeper relationship with God only for the benefits he provides. Fake believers might do this, but not true believers.
The faith chapter, in Hebrews 11, lists many people who suffered and did not experience the kinds of rewards that people in these sorts of movements clamor for. They suffered without receiving the reward, and were commended by God for this. They are commended by God in this chapter for their faith. And many of them did not receive what they were looking for, in terms of reward, even to their death.
Additionally, it doesn't take much reading of the Bible to see that salvation in its fullest sense is achieved at Christ's return. There is an already-but-not-yet aspect to salvation, and this salvation includes giving life to moral bodies. See Romans 8.
Regarding suffering being seen as an opportunity for faith to grow, I agree with that. Ultimately, the believer may suffer until the end of his days with various health conditions and other situations. If you are saying that he reaches a certain point where he will be healed in this life, and that he must somehow develop enough faith for that to happen, I disagree with you totally. It may be God's will for him to suffer with this condtion, because it is through weakness that God's strength is more clearly displayed in the suffering individual. In human weakness, God's strength is more fully revealed.
Unfortunately, false ministries have exported their trashy theology throughout the world, and are making a lot of false claims concerning guarantees of healing. This leads to unmet expectations in a lot of people. It is common that such individuals are told that they should be healed immediately, if they had enough faith to be healed, so the fault is theirs. This is a false teaching and those that teach it are false teachers.
God may heal some individuals, and I believe he does according to his sovereign will. He knows what is best for the person spiritually.
By the way, one of the most spiritual people I know suffered great hardships. It makes me sick that Word of Faith people would claim that she wasn't very spiritual or she would have been healed. They are so shallow, that they do not understand that her continued faithfulness to God was more visible due to her suffering. In that manner, she was like Job.
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Just another remark..it appears like you are an Indian who is living in Greece.
If so, India is one of the areas where fake health, wealth, and prosperity teachers have propagated a false gospel. That is unfortunate. Individuals who are in the poorest countries are some of the most susceptible victims of fake teachers.
If so, India is one of the areas where fake health, wealth, and prosperity teachers have propagated a false gospel. That is unfortunate. Individuals who are in the poorest countries are some of the most susceptible victims of fake teachers.
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The sign TO her was that she KNEW she had been healed...
It wasn´t a visible sign, sir...but it was a sign never the less.
Her faith, her reaching out saying to herself, if I can only touch the hem of HIS robe...healed her...fully....and not just physically...her faith was in HIM as THE HEALER...the ONE who heals...
Jesus needed to know who had touched HIM...It´s Jesus who heals, sir...and HIS healing to this woman was prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION...
Even the man with many demons was healed prior to the LORD´s CRUCIFIXION, sir...
The sign they received was their healing.
But, after they were healed...they did not walk away...they did not claim HIS BLOOD and leave HIM...in fact, the man with many demons wanted to leave the community he could have gone back to, and follow HIM...
But how sir...how will any man know to call on HIM, if they do not know HIM...further, there are many who are not physically ill, who think they are well-healed...and they do not call on HIM either...and they are sick and do not know they need a physician to begin with..
How do you reconcile both, sir...those who are physically ill who should call on HIM and those who seem to be physically healed, but are sick...and should also call on HIM...
Or, do you only look on the outer as some sort of sign, by a physical ailment, that one is not healed.
Because, sir...there ARE even those who are physically ill, but still....FULLY HEALED...
It wasn´t a visible sign, sir...but it was a sign never the less.
Her faith, her reaching out saying to herself, if I can only touch the hem of HIS robe...healed her...fully....and not just physically...her faith was in HIM as THE HEALER...the ONE who heals...
Jesus needed to know who had touched HIM...It´s Jesus who heals, sir...and HIS healing to this woman was prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION...
Even the man with many demons was healed prior to the LORD´s CRUCIFIXION, sir...
The sign they received was their healing.
But, after they were healed...they did not walk away...they did not claim HIS BLOOD and leave HIM...in fact, the man with many demons wanted to leave the community he could have gone back to, and follow HIM...
But how sir...how will any man know to call on HIM, if they do not know HIM...further, there are many who are not physically ill, who think they are well-healed...and they do not call on HIM either...and they are sick and do not know they need a physician to begin with..
How do you reconcile both, sir...those who are physically ill who should call on HIM and those who seem to be physically healed, but are sick...and should also call on HIM...
Or, do you only look on the outer as some sort of sign, by a physical ailment, that one is not healed.
Because, sir...there ARE even those who are physically ill, but still....FULLY HEALED...
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