Is God Good?

[posthuman]

Or why doesn't he stop it if he is all-powerful?

do you not believe what Jesus did when He was lifted up?

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
(John 12:31) ​

 

[posthuman]

Since evil exists, how can God as the creator of everything be good? Or why doesn't he stop it if he is all-powerful? In other words. Hint: free will does not solve it. Gordon Clark does.

you are asking why God allows you to exist, while your heart is wicked.
Mssr. Clark's answer is that God is evil but can't be held to account because He owns the courts.

the question is why God allows Clark to call Him the author of sin, and why God allows you to believe this.
the question is why does the mercy of God exist -- the problem is the existence of goodness. the problem is why does God continue to show you & Mssr. Clark mercy?

 

[Hungry]

How do you answer Clark from scripture? It's possible if you use scripture alone.

I will take a crack at it, without scripture. First the problem in the question is the premise that Almighty, all good and evil cannot coexist. As much as we would like to take ownership of this planet, it was never given to us. We were created to work for God. Creation was started in Genesis, it wasn’t finished there. He wanted a lush planet teeming with wildlife. As time continues it spreads. When it has reached fullness He will return to rule it. It’s like a big self sustaining farm until man gets greedy and throws off the natural order and balance. How about a parable. A generous, business owner buys a fleet of vehicles and tools for his crew to help them do his work, then allows them to take them home and use them, but to take care of them. After a year they haven’t done their due diligence by maintaining the vehicles. Some lost their tools, some sold them and some men are doing side jobs on company time. One of them got drunk and crashed his van. Then the crew goes to the owner and complains that they can’t do the jobs efficiently because they don’t have the right equipment. Since he is wealthy and able, he should buy them all new equipment again. The owner responded, “You have abused and neglected what I have already provided. If I replace them, you will do it again. Now, take what is left, fix it, and use it in agony. By the time I am ready to make everything new you will have better appreciation for what was given.”

Now the owner could have fired the lot of workers but he decided to be merciful, let them keep their jobs and suffer the consequences. Our Lord has given us instruction to maintain His property but we have not. We are the hands and feet. If the world is evil it is because we are lazy. We have allowed corruption. We have chosen greed and comfort to lead us. When we say, “Lord why do you allow these children to starve to death?”, He says, “I designed it so populations can’t thrive in impoverished barren lands. Lust for sex has created this. Instead of these babies dying mercifully by going to sleep and waking up in eternity others prolong their suffering by feeding them morsels keeping them trapped here. Then their life of suffering leads to more sin and to momentarily stop their pain they have sex, perpetuating the cycle.” Death is a mercy, an example of God’s love, not the exception of it.

 

[posthuman]

Consider the work of God;​

for who can make straight what He has made crooked?​

In the day of prosperity be joyful,​

but in the day of adversity consider:​

surely God has appointed the one as well as the other,​

so that man can find out nothing that will come after him.
(Ecclesiastes 7:13-14)​

​

if you fear the LORD, you will trust Him and awe at His doings;
however if you do not regard wisdom, you will accuse God of sin.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Not the first. And was even Paul the first to say God is good, and not the author of evil? What I said, I derived from what is written. I don't know who this Clark fellow is, but if he contradicts scripture, he's not 'the greatest theologian' and not much of a philosopher.

There is no 'problem of evil'
The problem is why does good exist, seeing that man isn't?
The answer is that God is, and He is good.

I think Jerome Zanchius has a pretty good response...


”From what has been laid down, it follows that Augustine, Luther, Bucer, the scholastic divines, and other learned writers are not to be blamed for asserting that "God may in some sense be said to will the being and commission of sin." For, was this contrary to His determining will of permission, either He would not be omnipotent, or sin could have no place in the world; but He is omnipotent, and sin has a place in the world, which it could not have if God willed otherwise; for who hath resisted His will? (Rom 9). No one can deny that God permits sin, but He neither permits it ignorantly nor unwillingly, therefore knowingly and willingly”

Excerpt From
Observations On The Divine Attributes
Jerome Zanchius

*******************************************************

I’ve been reading this good book. Recommend it to everyone.

 

[Dave-L]

I will take a crack at it, without scripture. First the problem in the question is the premise that Almighty, all good and evil cannot coexist. As much as we would like to take ownership of this planet, it was never given to us. We were created to work for God. Creation was started in Genesis, it wasn’t finished there. He wanted a lush planet teeming with wildlife. As time continues it spreads. When it has reached fullness He will return to rule it. It’s like a big self sustaining farm until man gets greedy and throws off the natural order and balance. How about a parable. A generous, business owner buys a fleet of vehicles and tools for his crew to help them do his work, then allows them to take them home and use them, but to take care of them. After a year they haven’t done their due diligence by maintaining the vehicles. Some lost their tools, some sold them and some men are doing side jobs on company time. One of them got drunk and crashed his van. Then the crew goes to the owner and complains that they can’t do the jobs efficiently because they don’t have the right equipment. Since he is wealthy and able, he should buy them all new equipment again. The owner responded, “You have abused and neglected what I have already provided. If I replace them, you will do it again. Now, take what is left, fix it, and use it in agony. By the time I am ready to make everything new you will have better appreciation for what was given.”

Now the owner could have fired the lot of workers but he decided to be merciful, let them keep their jobs and suffer the consequences. Our Lord has given us instruction to maintain His property but we have not. We are the hands and feet. If the world is evil it is because we are lazy. We have allowed corruption. We have chosen greed and comfort to lead us. When we say, “Lord why do you allow these children to starve to death?”, He says, “I designed it so populations can’t thrive in impoverished barren lands. Lust for sex has created this. Instead of these babies dying mercifully by going to sleep and waking up in eternity others prolong their suffering by feeding them morsels keeping them trapped here. Then their life of suffering leads to more sin and to momentarily stop their pain they have sex, perpetuating the cycle.” Death is a mercy, an example of God’s love, not the exception of it.

I think Clark solved the problem. Possibly the first to do it. But it depends on worshipping God as he is, and not as an idol we approve of.

 

[Dave-L]

you are asking why God allows you to exist, while your heart is wicked.
Mssr. Clark's answer is that God is evil but can't be held to account because He owns the courts.

the question is why God allows Clark to call Him the author of sin, and why God allows you to believe this.
the question is why does the mercy of God exist -- the problem is the existence of goodness. the problem is why does God continue to show you & Mssr. Clark mercy?

How can God sin if there is no other God he must obey?

 

[Dave-L]

do you not believe what Jesus did when He was lifted up?

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. ​

(John 12:31) ​

Where is Satan today? Other than fulfilling his other assignments. Does COVID19 ring a bell?

 

[posthuman]

Gordon Clark

Clark

Clark stated

Clark explained

greatest theologians and philosophers

solve it. Gordon Clark does.

here's a spiritual song for you to think about

♪♫
and N.T. Wright is a sound theologian​

yeah N.T. Wright is a sound theologian​

and N.T. Wright is a sound theologian​

but even he will be so wrong sometimes..
♫♫♪​

 

[Dave-L]

here's a spiritual song for you to think about

♪♫​

and N.T. Wright is a sound theologian​

yeah N.T. Wright is a sound theologian​

and N.T. Wright is a sound theologian​

but even he will be so wrong sometimes.. ​

♫♫♪​

Do you know anything about Gordon Clark?

 

[posthuman]

How can God sin if there is no other God he must obey?

there is no law against adultery in this country. doesn't make it 'not sin'

you're really going to hang your hat on "God really is evil we just can't technically call Him that" ??

it ain't a solution mate. it clarifies the real problem: why does God allow you to continue thinking this way?
the problem is the continued existence of His mercy toward you. the problem is why isn't the judgement of blasphemy instantaneous. time is mercy, and time exists because His will is that we repent from wickedness.

 

[Hungry]

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

I think it’s obvious when you read the chapter what the whole story was. He enticed the king to strike so he would die through the mouths of the false prophets. However, when the king inquired from the true prophet, Micaiah, the king was told the true situation. Instead of heed the words of the true prophet, followed the words of the false ones to his death.

 

[Dave-L]

I think it’s obvious when you read the chapter what the whole story was. He enticed the king to strike so he would die through the mouths of the false prophets. However, when the king inquired from the true prophet, Micaiah, the king was told the true situation. Instead of heed the words of the true prophet, followed the words of the false ones to his death.

Because God used a lying spirit to deceive him. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave-L]

there is no law against adultery in this country. doesn't make it 'not sin'

you're really going to hang your hat on "God really is evil we just can't technically call Him that" ??

it ain't a solution mate. it clarifies the real problem: why does God allow you to continue thinking this way?
the problem is the continued existence of His mercy toward you. the problem is why isn't the judgement of blasphemy instantaneous. time is mercy, and time exists because His will is that we repent from wickedness.

Your reply has nothing to do with explaining the historic "problem of evil" You are trying to run the big dogs here and it ain't gonna happen.

 

[posthuman]

Do you know anything about Gordon Clark?

i know he thinks 'the existence of evil' is a bigger problem than the existence of mercy,
and i know he has a stupid answer.

sounds like a hyper-calvinist lacking reverence and looking to escape responsibility.
like someone who read Romans 9:19-22 but forgot James 1:13-14.
i'm going to guess he thinks Adam blamed Woman for his own sin in Genesis 3:12, essentially claiming God caused Adam to sin by giving her to him. and i'll further guess that he thinks God accepted that blame-shirking, and covered him and his wife with atonement because they accused God of sin without confessing their own.

how am i doing?

 

[posthuman]

Your reply has nothing to do with explaining the historic "problem of evil" You are trying to run the big dogs here and it ain't gonna happen.

big dogs die just the same as little mice.

The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.
(Psalm 94:11) ​

 

[Dave-L]

big dogs die just the same as little mice.

The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. ​

(Psalm 94:11) ​

big dogs die just the same as little mice.

The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. ​

(Psalm 94:11) ​

“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction.” Proverbs 1:7 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave-L]

i know he thinks 'the existence of evil' is a bigger problem than the existence of mercy,
and i know he has a stupid answer.

sounds like a hyper-calvinist lacking reverence and looking to escape responsibility.
like someone who read Romans 9:19-22 but forgot James 1:13-14.
i'm going to guess he thinks Adam blamed Woman for his own sin in Genesis 3:12, essentially claiming God caused Adam to sin by giving her to him. and i'll further guess that he thinks God accepted that blame-shirking, and covered him and his wife with atonement because they accused God of sin without confessing their own.

how am i doing?

Google is good for you.

 

[Hungry]

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7 (KJV 1900)

This is true if you interpret “evil” correctly. When the Lord parted the sea and then crashed the sea on the Egyptians. Then it was “evil” to the Egyptians. It basically means he holds all in the balance. He can elevate you or destroy (evil) you. When an author writes a book or a painter paints a picture, it belongs to them. They can hang it on a wall or throw it in the fire. As far as judging God goes, I think you are out of your element. It’s like you’re an infant rebuking his parent. They say don’t touch the knives, then you see them prepare dinner and think they are being a hypocrite. Again, they say don’t hit your sister. Then they spank you when you misbehave. Clearly the spanking is a rebuke for misbehaviour delivered from an authority. Hitting a sibling was most likely bullying or an abusive display of anger. Learn your place. You have authority over what you own, say your car. You can maintain it and keep it in a garage out of the elements or push it off a cliff (evil). It’s yours. However, if you lend it to someone you can tell them not to push it off a cliff. See the difference. Since we are property of the One who created us, He has authority. You can challenge it, and fail or accept it.

 

[posthuman]

I think it’s obvious when you read the chapter what the whole story was. He enticed the king to strike so he would die through the mouths of the false prophets. However, when the king inquired from the true prophet, Micaiah, the king was told the true situation. Instead of heed the words of the true prophet, followed the words of the false ones to his death.

yes, Ahab was presented with the truth and the lie and listened to the lie rather than the truth.

what spirit is it that persuades men to call God the author of evil and the motive force behind sin?
is it a lying spirit or is it the spirit of prophecy?_______________