Not By Works

[Judges1318]

I am not even asking you about the taking up serpents part.

Haven't had to cross that road yet, lol.

 

[EleventhHour]

You said I made up a second meaning of 'justified'.
I showed you I did not.


Well, as I've shown in post #135,354 above it comes in handy for determining if you get to stay in the church or whether we should turn you over to satan and have nothing to do with you. Claiming to be a brother don't cut it. How you act, that's what shows if you're a true believer or not:

"11But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat." - 1 Corinthians 5:11

We are commanded to show 'faith alone' people (as James means that) the door.


As far as your 'twelve tribes' doctrine, we know James is not talking about being made righteous by works because it's impossible to be justified by works. How many works does it take to be justified by works? You know the answer (at least you should). ALL OF THEM:

"10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." - James 2:10

No one can be justified by works because no one can do all right things all the time. Justification (being made righteous) has NEVER been by works and NEVER will be. It's impossible for anybody, Jew or gentile, to do.

Oh I see you still have not solved the problem of the fact that Jesus gives everlasting/eternal life when we are "born from above"
Still waiting.......

 

[Micaiah-imla]

"works" do not save us

This is as far as I’ll go in agreement with you.

 

[Guojing]

You've never done this?
You need to find a new church.

Have you ever built an ark, like what God commanded Noah to?

You need to find a new church

 

[EleventhHour]

This is as far as I’ll go in agreement with you.

Why would that be

Explain please and tell me how Romans 4:4 fits with your view that works are necessary for salvation.

 

[Judges1318]

For a person to be unborn from above by analogy would be the same as a person being unbirthed.

That's YOUR argument.
I never said losing salvation is the same as being unborn.
I said it's the same as dying, like in the physical body losing the life it had.

That's pretty straight forward.
Show me you can comprehend that I'm not making YOUR argument, I'm making mine.

 

[Judges1318]

Have you ever built an ark, like what God commanded Noah to?

You need to find a new church

What a stupid argument.
As if Mark 16 and the story of Noah have any correlation in regard to praying for the sick and them being healed.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

“Have you taken up serpents; have you performed a miracle” - miracle expiration believers say.

Sounds like Satan tempting Jesus to jump off the pinnacle of the temple, change rocks to food...

 

[Judges1318]

Explain please and tell me how Romans 4:4 fits with your view that works are necessary for salvation.

How many times does it have to be explained to you?
Are you really not comprehending what we're saying, or are you just not wanting to accept how it fits into our view?
If it's not a comprehension problem why are you asking him to explain how it fits into his view, again?
You didn't get it the first time.....and the second time......and the third time.......?

 

[Judges1318]

“Have you taken up serpents; have you performed a miracle” - miracle expiration believers say.

Sounds like Satan tempting Jesus to jump off the pinnacle of the temple, change rocks to food...

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Explain please and tell me how Romans 4:4 fits with your view that works are necessary for salvation.

Mine and your views are irrelevant.

Let’s look at the passage:

Romans 4:4
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

This is true. The reward is obtained by grace through faith; no works.

Again, where we split is that in your view, this reward, once obtained without works, can be permanently retained without works being necessary. The whole of scripture soundly refutes this view.

 

[Guojing]

What a stupid argument.
As if Mark 16 and the story of Noah have any correlation in regard to praying for the sick and them being healed.

They are both instructions directed to people who are not you.

That is the correlation.

 

[EleventhHour]

That's YOUR argument.
I never said losing salvation is the same as being unborn.
I said it's the same as dying, like in the physical body losing the life it had.

That's pretty straight forward.
Show me you can comprehend that I'm not making YOUR argument, I'm making mine.

Can you not understand the word concept of event, occurrence of birth.
It is an event. it cannot be undone.
Gee whiz .....even dead people have a day when they were physically born, their death does undo that event.

I know you are stuck you cannot admit it.

 

[Guojing]

“Have you taken up serpents; have you performed a miracle” - miracle expiration believers say.

Sounds like Satan tempting Jesus to jump off the pinnacle of the temple, change rocks to food...

You cannot read Mark 16:17-18 literally?

It did not add "But please don't tempt God by purposely taking up serpents".

 

[John146]

You've never done this?
You need to find a new church.

You? Every time the person is healed no exceptions?

 

[EleventhHour]

Mine and your views are irrelevant.

Let’s look at the passage:

Romans 4:4
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

This is true. The reward is obtained by grace through faith; no works.

Again, where we split is that in your view, this reward, once obtained without works, can be permanently retained without works being necessary. The whole of scripture soundly refutes this view.

Salvation is not a reward.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

It did not add "But please don't tempt God by purposely taking up serpents".

Foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing that they do gender strifes (2 Timothy 2:23).

I desire no strife with you friend. What you believe is what will be for you.

 

[Guojing]

Foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing that they do gender strifes (2 Timothy 2:23).

I desire no strife with you friend. What you believe is what will be for you.

Me neither. I am just alerting you that you are not believing what Mark 16:17-18 is literally saying, and yet you insist that passage applies to you.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Salvation is not a reward.

Romans 4:5
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 1:16
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Reward, gift; it’s all tied together.

 

[biker]

To believe in God is not "works," but applying Faith.
A righteous man does not need to perform "works" to keep his Salvation, but he will do "works" because he is trying to help build the Kingdom of God.