Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

[UnitedWithChrist]

I don't hate the Jews, I don't hate anybody. I'm not an antisemite because i believe the bible when it says that not all Israel is of Israel. You wont acknowledge this fact. I don't think you even comprehend it, you can't comprehend it or else you wouldn't place the God hating enemies of the gospel over God's chosen people.

How much clearer must God be for you to get it?
Jews - group 1 one, God haters and enemies of the gospel.
Jews - group 2 God's elect.

You insist upon putting the God hating Jews above God's elect Jews. And you think my salvation should be called into question?

You

Clearly Jews. No doubt.

Notice, folks, that dispensationalists will continue to insist on "literalism" in order to perpetuate their doctrine, even if you point out issues.

Notice that he did not address the issue with Dan and his omission, as well as breaking out Joseph separately from Manasseh.

The account does not use the 12 tribes of Israel but it uses 11 full tribes and 1 half-tribe.

Now, I am sure some creative dispensationalist has came up with some kind of bogus explanation, but cv5 doesn't even attempt it.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Israel is in the land buddy. And right on schedule....

www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

Israel's presence in the land does not indicate dispensationalism is true.

It could relate to the end-time evangelism that is occurring even now.

Messianic Jews in Israel are evangelizing to non-believing Jews in Israel.

Like I said, there is NOTHING within amillennialism that negates the possibility of this evangelizing effort prior to Christ's return.

Your assumption is that dispensationalism is true, but it is simply an assumption.

I will also note that it has been way over 40 years since Israel was established. Typical dispensationalist teaching, related to Matthew 24, is that Christ would return within 40 years (one generation) of this event. It has been way past it..in fact about 30 years.

This has caused many dispensationalists to abandon their position, as more than one generation has elapsed.

And, contrary to your lies and slanders concerning me, I am not an Anti-Semitic person and I hope that a great number of Jews are saved. They are one of the least-evangelized groups on the planet. I think a large number will be saved, almost all of them, when Jesus returns. They will realize that he is the Messiah and will respond.

I want you to bring up your hateful lie about me to God in prayer and confess your sinfulness in this regard. I call upon you to repent of your lying claims. God knows the truth on this matter, and he knows I am not stupid enough to hate Jews. Any moron knows that Jesus himself was a Jew, so hatred of Jews is impossible for a real Christian united with Christ.

 

[Diakonos]

Here's what you must believe as a dispensationalist:

You must necessarily believe that physical death will continue to exist beyond the time of Christ’s second coming

You must necessarily believe that the natural creation will continue, beyond the time of Christ’s second coming, to be subjected to the curse imposed by the fall of man.

You must necessarily believe that the New Heavens and New Earth will not be introduced until 1,000 years subsequent to the return of Christ.

You must necessarily believe that unbelieving men and women will still have the opportunity to come to saving faith in Christ for at least 1,000 years subsequent to his return.

You must necessarily believe that unbelievers will not be finally resurrected until at least 1,000 years subsequent to the return of Christ.

You must necessarily believe that unbelievers will not be finally judged and cast into eternal punishment until at least 1,000 years subsequent to the return of Christ.

Yes that is completely Biblical. I don't see your problem with this.
Why do you have a problem with these statements? Its exactly what The Bible says will happen in chronological order

 

[kaylagrl]

Let's discuss it, what part of Romans 11 best proves that God isn't finished with Israel as it says he is in Amos 8?

Do you believe 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Yes that is completely Biblical. I don't see your problem with this.
Why do you have a problem with these statements? Its exactly what The Bible says will happen in chronological order

Did you read the supporting arguments?

I agree with Sam Storm's analysis, which is the typical amillennial position.

1 Corinthians 15 teaches that death is defeated at the resurrection. There is no room for death and evil men to continue past Jesus' return.

Matthew 25 clearly teaches this too. At Jesus' return, the righteous and unrighteous will be separated at the general judgment. The righteous go into eternal life, and the wicked to eternal punishment.

There is no third group which goes into the Millennium as ordinary men.

You find NO SUPPORT for the Millennium anywhere in the epistles or Gospels...the only support is found in Revelation 20, which can be viewed in an amillennial manner.

Maybe you did not see this document, which was attached on some posts relating to this topic.

It shows the major problems with all premillennialism, not just dispensationalism, which is one form of millennialism.

 

[KJV1611]

Do you believe 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust?

Of course I do, why would I not believe that?

 

[kaylagrl]

Of course I do, why would I not believe that?

Just establishing where you stand with the Jewish people.

 

[cv5]

By the way, I am wondering if you are claiming that the New Covenant is not in effect now, and/or does not apply to Gentile believers.

Biblical regeneration happens to all true believers. New believers receive a heart of flesh to replace their heart of stone at the moment of regeneration.

That is certainly what some dispensationalists claim, and it is a false teaching.

You are the first and only person that I have ever heard make that bizarre and outrageous claim. Amazing really.

 

[KJV1611]

Just establishing where you stand with the Jewish people.

I don't have any problems with Jews or any other ethnic group, I'm not a racist I'm a bible believer.

 

[cv5]

You

Notice, folks, that dispensationalists will continue to insist on "literalism" in order to perpetuate their doctrine, even if you point out issues.

Notice that he did not address the issue with Dan and his omission, as well as breaking out Joseph separately from Manasseh.

The account does not use the 12 tribes of Israel but it uses 11 full tribes and 1 half-tribe.

Now, I am sure some creative dispensationalist has came up with some kind of bogus explanation, but cv5 doesn't even attempt it.

I understand all of that

Israel's presence in the land does not indicate dispensationalism is true.

It could relate to the end-time evangelism that is occurring even now.

Messianic Jews in Israel are evangelizing to non-believing Jews in Israel.

Like I said, there is NOTHING within amillennialism that negates the possibility of this evangelizing effort prior to Christ's return.

Your assumption is that dispensationalism is true, but it is simply an assumption.

I will also note that it has been way over 40 years since Israel was established. Typical dispensationalist teaching, related to Matthew 24, is that Christ would return within 40 years (one generation) of this event. It has been way past it..in fact about 30 years.

This has caused many dispensationalists to abandon their position, as more than one generation has elapsed.

And, contrary to your lies and slanders concerning me, I am not an Anti-Semitic person and I hope that a great number of Jews are saved. They are one of the least-evangelized groups on the planet. I think a large number will be saved, almost all of them, when Jesus returns. They will realize that he is the Messiah and will respond.

I want you to bring up your hateful lie about me to God in prayer and confess your sinfulness in this regard. I call upon you to repent of your lying claims. God knows the truth on this matter, and he knows I am not stupid enough to hate Jews. Any moron knows that Jesus himself was a Jew, so hatred of Jews is impossible for a real Christian united with Christ.

I never accused you of anything. Your buddy KJV1611 condemned himself by his own words.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I understand all of that

I never accused you of anything. Your buddy KJV1611 condemned himself by his own words.

KJV1611 is neither my "buddy" or my enemy.

I barely know what he thinks, except he is apparently a KJV Onlyist.

I am not.

I favor the ESV. The NASB, NKJV, or even the NIV are fine with me, for specific uses.

In fact, I would have suspected that a KJV Onlyist might be a dispensationalist from an IFB church. But, I know nothing about him and his positions.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You are the first and only person that I have ever heard make that bizarre and outrageous claim. Amazing really.

Individuals here freely admit that they are convinced that the New Covenant does not begin until Jesus' return.

This is because they claim the New Covenant was made only with Israel, and they are looking forward to its establishment when the Millennium begins.

You might check with your fellow dispensationalists here on this detail.

One called theDivineWatermark posted a list of possible explanations in this regard that dispensationalists hold, so it is indeed factual that some of them believe this.

And, I see why they believe it, due to the fact that they don't think Israel's promises were generalized to all those in Christ. Because, the wording of the New Covenant specifies that it is to be made with Israel and Judah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(ESV)

Notice that the New Covenant here is made with Israel and Judah.

Since the dispensationalist denies that the promises made to Israel and Judah are generalized to all believers, Jew and Gentile, the consistent dispensationalist would deny that the New Covenant applies to all believers, Jew and Gentile. I believe some will claim that it isn't even in effect yet, and begins at some future point.

Anyways, I realize dispensationalists are not totally consistent with their doctrine, but the consistent ones tend to believe this. And, if they open up the door to this generalization hermeneutic I am speaking about, then they open the door to their entire system collapsing.

Which is precisely what has happened to the possibility of dispensationalism being true in my mind.

 

[Diakonos]

Did you read the supporting arguments?

I agree with Sam Storm's analysis, which is the typical amillennial position.

1 Corinthians 15 teaches that death is defeated at the resurrection. There is no room for death and evil men to continue past Jesus' return.

Matthew 25 clearly teaches this too. At Jesus' return, the righteous and unrighteous will be separated at the general judgment. The righteous go into eternal life, and the wicked to eternal punishment.

There is no third group which goes into the Millennium as ordinary men.

You find NO SUPPORT for the Millennium anywhere in the epistles or Gospels...the only support is found in Revelation 20, which can be viewed in an amillennial manner.

Maybe you did not see this document, which was attached on some posts relating to this topic.

It shows the major problems with all premillennialism, not just dispensationalism, which is one form of millennialism.

For some reason, my computer won't read pdf's without downloading them, I changed the settings and it still does it, so I prefer to remain on the website. So if a video or document can be read here, then I will review it.

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't have any problems with Jews or any other ethnic group, I'm not a racist I'm a bible believer.

No, never said you were. But I often found some Christians do have this attitude toward the Jews and it colors everything else. So, what in Romans says to you that God is totally finished with the Jews. I don't see it.

 

[John146]

Individuals here freely admit that they are convinced that the New Covenant does not begin until Jesus' return.

This is because they claim the New Covenant was made only with Israel, and they are looking forward to its establishment when the Millennium begins.

You might check with your fellow dispensationalists here on this detail.

One called theDivineWatermark posted a list of possible explanations in this regard that dispensationalists hold, so it is indeed factual that some of them believe this.

And, I see why they believe it, due to the fact that they don't think Israel's promises were generalized to all those in Christ. Because, the wording of the New Covenant specifies that it is to be made with Israel and Judah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(ESV)

Notice that the New Covenant here is made with Israel and Judah.

Since the dispensationalist denies that the promises made to Israel and Judah are generalized to all believers, Jew and Gentile, the consistent dispensationalist would deny that the New Covenant applies to all believers, Jew and Gentile. I believe some will claim that it isn't even in effect yet, and begins at some future point.

Anyways, I realize dispensationalists are not totally consistent with their doctrine, but the consistent ones tend to believe this. And, if they open up the door to this generalization hermeneutic I am speaking about, then they open the door to their entire system collapsing.

Which is precisely what has happened to the possibility of dispensationalism being true in my mind.

According to this, there’s no need to evangelize for all will know Him. Very true upon the Lord’s return, but now? No more teaching?

 

[cv5]

Yes that is completely Biblical. I don't see your problem with this.
Why do you have a problem with these statements? Its exactly what The Bible says will happen in chronological order

That for me is core dispensationalism. These ancillary rants are debatable and/or irrevevant.

 

[Diakonos]

That for me is core dispensationalism. These ancillary rants are debatable and/or irrevevant.

There are many flavors of Calvinism just like there are many flavors of Dispensationalism. I hate that people have to jump to conclusions and assume everything about your theology is wrong instead of dealing with the subjects one-by-one.

 

[cv5]

Individuals here freely admit that they are convinced that the New Covenant does not begin until Jesus' return.

This is because they claim the New Covenant was made only with Israel, and they are looking forward to its establishment when the Millennium begins.

You might check with your fellow dispensationalists here on this detail.

One called theDivineWatermark posted a list of possible explanations in this regard that dispensationalists hold, so it is indeed factual that some of them believe this.

And, I see why they believe it, due to the fact that they don't think Israel's promises were generalized to all those in Christ. Because, the wording of the New Covenant specifies that it is to be made with Israel and Judah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(ESV)

Notice that the New Covenant here is made with Israel and Judah.

Since the dispensationalist denies that the promises made to Israel and Judah are generalized to all believers, Jew and Gentile, the consistent dispensationalist would deny that the New Covenant applies to all believers, Jew and Gentile. I believe some will claim that it isn't even in effect yet, and begins at some future point.

Anyways, I realize dispensationalists are not totally consistent with their doctrine, but the consistent ones tend to believe this. And, if they open up the door to this generalization hermeneutic I am speaking about, then they open the door to their entire system collapsing.

Which is precisely what has happened to the possibility of dispensationalism being true in my mind.

What is this nonsense you have been reading? The New Covenant was struck in the upper room and confirmed at Pentecost.

 

[KJV1611]

No, never said you were. But I often found some Christians do have this attitude toward the Jews and it colors everything else. So, what in Romans says to you that God is totally finished with the Jews. I don't see it.

Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Romans 10:21 explains how God continually reached out to the national Israel and they were always disobedient and boastful towards God's grace. People that reject the grace of God ARE NOT God's chosen people.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

In Romans 11:1 Paul continues to prove this point in saying "Has God cast away his people". Note that it says HIS PEOPLE. It's not talking about the grace rejecting disobedient boastful Jews, they are not his chosen people. Paul was one of the chosen Jews, and he is reaffirming that although God is casting away the grace rejecting disobedient boastful Jews, of which Paul's earthly lineage is a part of, he IS NOT casting away his chosen people just because they were Jews.

 

[cv5]

This is another dispensationalist lie.

And you show who your father is, by telling such lies.

Jesus is a Jew. No Christian hates Jesus. Therefore, no Christians hate Jews.

Pretty simple logic.

Also, knowledgeable Christians that believers are united with Christ, therefore they themselves are Abraham's descendants. This is clearly taught in Ephesians 2 and Galatians 3, as well as Romans 4.

So, they would be hating themselves if they hate Jews, since they are legally Abraham's descendants through union with Christ.

Anyways, folks, this is some of the best advertising against dispensationalism, as cv5's claim is one that is very typical in the dispensationalist circle.

The claim is that non-dispensationalists are anti-Semitic if they don't believe dispensationalism.

The reality is that dispensationalists are lying about this.

Jews and Gentiles are ONE in Christ. They are not TWO.

Ephesians 2 again.

Some of them will continue to use slander to confuse the simple-minded though.

I was replying to KJV1611, not you.