Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

[KJV1611]

Why? Vast VAST quantities of boilerplate prophecy. Any other position is absurd.

Saved Jews are Gods elect, unsaved Jews are the enemies of the gospel. You don't think it's absurd that Christians support the enemies of the gospel?

I whole heartedly support the Israel of God but it blows my mind that you guys actually support the God hating Jews. It's like you can't see that there two segments of Israel... the good and the bad and you guys lump them into one.

 

[cv5]

I don't like using the word Calvinist. John Calvin believed in a lot of things I don't, including infant baptism.

But, yes, I believe God is sovereign in salvation. He gives a heart of flesh to replace the heart of stone the unsaved man possesses. This heart of flesh generates faith and repentance. Free-willers believe that somehow, their hard heart of stone can produce faith and repentance, in order to receive a heart of flesh. This is called "decisional regeneration".

My view is that regeneration precedes faith. Their view is that their faith and repentance produces regeneration.

In the past, I used the term "Arminian" to refer to free-willers but in reality, Jacob Arminius had a better view (but still inadequate) of the redical corruption of mankind than modern day Arminians. The Remonstrants took Arminius' doctrine even further than Arminius. I would call both of them semi-Pelagians though. And, some free-willers are even worse than modern-day Arminians. There are Pelagians in the midst of free-willers.

It doesn't help that almost all free-willers are dispensationalists in the USA. That pretty much assures that I would never attend a free-willer or dispensationalist church as a member.

Acts 3:19-21 19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, 21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.


I'm about to cause the premillennarians' heads to spin. They will run to their dens, grab their calculators, charts and graphs and diligently persevere until they form their rescue device to save their precious theology

This verse proves Peter was not a premillennial guy. He says that Jesus stays in heaven until the "restoration of all things".

The Millennium, as premillennialists consider it, is NOT the restoration of all things. Sin and rebellion still continues to rear its' ugly head toward the end of the Millennium.

But, Peter, instead, says that when Jesus returns, the complete restoration will occur.

Now, if this was one verse out of many that prove premillennialism, I would have a problem but it is not. If you read the NT carefully, you do not find a premillennial view. Their whole position relies on Revelation 20, which is obscure and can be explained in an amillennial context.

This is what I began to see about 5-7 years ago, when a friend of mine became amillennial through his association with a Reformed Baptist church. I thought he was whacky when he brought it up to me, but the Scriptures become so much more clear after you escape their faulty views.

And the fact that most of them deny the New Covenant is for believers today is totally absurd. I didn't even understand they taught that as a premillennialist. But, it is the natural conclusion of their theology.

Those verses are foundationally premillenial genius.

BTW... the Two Witnesses and 144,000 are Israelites. Coming with plagues and consuming fire no less.

 

[cv5]

Saved Jews are Gods elect, unsaved Jews are the enemies of the gospel. You don't think it's absurd that Christians support the enemies of the gospel?

I whole heartedly support the Israel of God but it blows my mind that you guys actually support the God hating Jews. It's like you can't see that there two segments of Israel... the good and the bad and you guys lump them into one.

I love the Jews. Though not as much as God does.

 

[KJV1611]

Get a clue. And comprehend the whole council of God. Your soul is in grave peril.

I'm not an antichrist Jew worshipper, my soul is not in any danger.

 

[KJV1611]

I love the Jews. Though not as much as God does.

Do you acknowledge that God separates Jews into to two groups - one group of Jews is God's elect and the other group are the enemies of the gospel?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The bible is crystal clear, God is finished with national Israel.

Amo 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

Why do you not believe that verse?

If this is so, did Jesus tell a fib when he said he only came for the Lost sheep of Israel ?

 

[KJV1611]

If this is so, did Jesus tell a fib when he said he only came for the Lost sheep of Israel ?

Thats what Amos is talking about.... the lost sheep of Israel ARE the basket of summer fruit.

Edit to add: The basket of summer fruit in Amos.

Amo 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

 

[KJV1611]

Amos 8 is a prophecy of the coming of Christ and the saving of the lost sheep of Israel.

 

[kaylagrl]

The bible is crystal clear, God is finished with national Israel.

Amo 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

Why do you not believe that verse?

Romans 11...

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

There is a rigid view of so-called dispensationalism that does it disservice. IMO the core issue is the reconstitution of national Israel (as a witness and servant and to preach Gods will) post-rapture when the Bride has been removed from the earth. Yes there is a millenial reign of course, which gives purpose to regathered and now obedient Israel.

Amillenialism is a no-sell heresy. There is zero possibility that Gods covenants and prophecy towards Israel will fail.

“I say then, have they [the Jew] stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their [the Jew’s] fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles for to provoke them [the Jews] to jealousy.” (Romans 11:11).​

“For as ye [Gentiles] in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their[the Jew’s] unbelief: even so have these [the Jews] also not believed, that through your [Gentiles’] mercy they [the Jews] also may obtain mercy.” (Romans 11:30, 31).​

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, jlest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness lin part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There is no failure in God's uncondtional promises to either Abraham or Israel.

They were either fulfilled in Israel's time, or they are fulfilled in Christ, or they were not unconditional.

And, all those who are joined to Jesus are Abraham's descendantes, because of the doctrine of union with Christ.

Abraham's promises are extended to all of Abraham's descendants, of which are all true believers.

By the way, there will be a massive evangelistic success amongst the physical Jews at Jesus' return.

There is no issue with regards to amillennialism in this regard. This is a faulty dispensationalist claim.

By the way, most dispensationalists are not bold enough to call those who disagree with them on this topic "heretics". The word "heretic" is reserved for those who compromise core Christian teaching. Dispensationalism was developed in the last 200 years so it cannot be a core teaching.

Dispensationalists will claim it was taught in the early Church, but the reality is that it was not. Some form of Millenniailsm was, but dispensationalism was not. Early Christians viewed Jews and Gentiles to be "one man" in Christ as Ephesians 2 teaches.

 

[KJV1611]

Romans 11...

Let's discuss it, what part of Romans 11 best proves that God isn't finished with Israel as it says he is in Amos 8?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Those verses are foundationally premillenial genius.

BTW... the Two Witnesses and 144,000 are Israelites. Coming with plagues and consuming fire no less.

This is a dispensationalist interpretation.

The "restoration of all things" is talking about the New Heavens and New Earth.

Not a literal 1000 Year Millennium.

The restoration is in the sense of the Garden of Eden. Read and compare Genesis 1-3 with Revelation 21-22.

The parallels are CLEAR.

By the way, the 144,000 are spiritual Israel..the Church..composed of both NT saints and OT saints.

12x12x1000

And, the number is symbolic, like all of the numbers in Revelation.

12 x 12 x 1000

12 indicates the OT saints, represented by 12 patriarchs
12 indicates the NT saints, represented by the 12 apostles
1000 indicates an innumerable number

This is a failure to understand the "hear" and "see" hermeneutic of Revelation.

First John hears something, then sees the interpretation.

Or, vice versa.

For instance, he hears the 144,000 read off.

Then he sees the innumerable multitude.

It's also apparent that this innumerable multitude is not literal Israel, because the tribe of Dan is omitted, and the tribe of Joseph is included along with Manasseh.

Unless God made a mistake, which is not possible, the dispensationalists have a problem.

 

[cv5]

I'm not an antichrist Jew worshipper, my soul is not in any danger.

Paul loves the Jews, and I love the Jews.

Satan hates the Jews and you hate the Jews.

Now we know beyond any doubt which camp is your abode.

What are you going to do now that your very words condemn you? Say that God hates the Jews too?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Those verses are foundationally premillenial genius.

BTW... the Two Witnesses and 144,000 are Israelites. Coming with plagues and consuming fire no less.

By the way, I am wondering if you are claiming that the New Covenant is not in effect now, and/or does not apply to Gentile believers.

Biblical regeneration happens to all true believers. New believers receive a heart of flesh to replace their heart of stone at the moment of regeneration.

That is certainly what some dispensationalists claim, and it is a false teaching.

 

[cv5]

This is a dispensationalist interpretation.

The "restoration of all things" is talking about the New Heavens and New Earth.

Not a literal 1000 Year Millennium.

The restoration is in the sense of the Garden of Eden. Read and compare Genesis 1-3 with Revelation 21-22.

The parallels are CLEAR.

By the way, the 144,000 are spiritual Israel..the Church..composed of both NT saints and OT saints.

12x12x1000

And, the number is symbolic, like all of the numbers in Revelation.

12 x 12 x 1000

12 indicates the OT saints, represented by 12 patriarchs
12 indicates the NT saints, represented by the 12 apostles
1000 indicates an innumerable number

This is a failure to understand the "hear" and "see" hermeneutic of Revelation.

First John hears something, then sees the interpretation.

Or, vice versa.

For instance, he hears the 144,000 read off.

Then he sees the innumerable multitude.

It's also apparent that this innumerable multitude is not literal Israel, because the tribe of Dan is omitted, and the tribe of Joseph is included along with Manasseh.

Unless God made a mistake, which is not possible, the dispensationalists have a problem.

Israel is in the land buddy. And right on schedule....

www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Replacement theology......an old and now new heresy.

I consider Separation theology, which is what dispensationalism is, to be a false teaching.

Those who hold it do not properly understand union with Christ, and that is the fundamental cause of their false teaching.

If they understood that the believer is legally and vitally united with Christ, regardless of ethnicity, I don't think most of them would believe dispensationalism.

Apparently they don't realize that Abraham and ALL HIS DESCENDANTS INCLUDING GENTILE BELIEVERS inherit the ENTIRE WORLD. This is CLEARLY TAUGHT in Romans 4.

This is because of the concept of UNION WITH CHRIST.

And this is CLEARLY REINFORCED in Ephesians 2.

 

[cv5]

This is a dispensationalist interpretation.

The "restoration of all things" is talking about the New Heavens and New Earth.

Not a literal 1000 Year Millennium.

The restoration is in the sense of the Garden of Eden. Read and compare Genesis 1-3 with Revelation 21-22.

The parallels are CLEAR.

By the way, the 144,000 are spiritual Israel..the Church..composed of both NT saints and OT saints.

12x12x1000

And, the number is symbolic, like all of the numbers in Revelation.

12 x 12 x 1000

12 indicates the OT saints, represented by 12 patriarchs
12 indicates the NT saints, represented by the 12 apostles
1000 indicates an innumerable number

This is a failure to understand the "hear" and "see" hermeneutic of Revelation.

First John hears something, then sees the interpretation.

Or, vice versa.

For instance, he hears the 144,000 read off.

Then he sees the innumerable multitude.

It's also apparent that this innumerable multitude is not literal Israel, because the tribe of Dan is omitted, and the tribe of Joseph is included along with Manasseh.

Unless God made a mistake, which is not possible, the dispensationalists have a problem.

Clearly Jews. No doubt.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Rubbish. All legit Christians understand and believe in the reconstitution of national (and individual) Israel, whom God will bless with a new heart of love and obedience.

What about Gentile believers now?

Are they given this new heart of flesh, to replace their heart of stone, now?

In other words, do you believe that Gentiles today are under the New Covenant?

 

[KJV1611]

Paul loves the Jews, and I love the Jews.

Satan hates the Jews and you hate the Jews.

Now we know beyond any doubt which camp is your abode.

What are you going to do now that your very words condemn you? Say that God hates the Jews too?

I don't hate the Jews, I don't hate anybody. I'm not an antisemite because i believe the bible when it says that not all Israel is of Israel. You wont acknowledge this fact. I don't think you even comprehend it, you can't comprehend it or else you wouldn't place the God hating enemies of the gospel over God's chosen people.

How much clearer must God be for you to get it?
Jews - group 1 one, God haters and enemies of the gospel.
Jews - group 2 God's elect.

You insist upon putting the God hating Jews above God's elect Jews. And you think my salvation should be called into question?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Paul loves the Jews, and I love the Jews.

Satan hates the Jews and you hate the Jews.

Now we know beyond any doubt which camp is your abode.

What are you going to do now that your very words condemn you? Say that God hates the Jews too?

This is another dispensationalist lie.

And you show who your father is, by telling such lies.

Jesus is a Jew. No Christian hates Jesus. Therefore, no Christians hate Jews.

Pretty simple logic.

Also, knowledgeable Christians that believers are united with Christ, therefore they themselves are Abraham's descendants. This is clearly taught in Ephesians 2 and Galatians 3, as well as Romans 4.

So, they would be hating themselves if they hate Jews, since they are legally Abraham's descendants through union with Christ.

Anyways, folks, this is some of the best advertising against dispensationalism, as cv5's claim is one that is very typical in the dispensationalist circle.

The claim is that non-dispensationalists are anti-Semitic if they don't believe dispensationalism.

The reality is that dispensationalists are lying about this.

Jews and Gentiles are ONE in Christ. They are not TWO.

Ephesians 2 again.

Some of them will continue to use slander to confuse the simple-minded though.