Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That’s not the question at hand. Can faith save him? Paul says yes, James says you must include works. Justification comes through faith and works.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I’m justified the very moment I believed the gospel.
No, Paul never said a dead faith would save anyone

Paul did not teach licentiousness

Shame on You john!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, the faith of Christ is nothing to laugh at. It is God’s righteousness imputed to the believer.
God did not have faith in you. and say because of his faith in you, He will save you

Gods faith carried him to the cross.. But that alone will not save you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Anyway, I am done

No one else seems to be listening to john. So it is not like I need to convince them that John is wrong

Carry on!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
God did not have faith in you. and say because of his faith in you, He will save you

Gods faith carried him to the cross.. But that alone will not save you.
Jesus had faith in His Father and was completely obedient even unto death. That’s the kind of faith that justifies! My weak, waivering faith can not justify.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
Anyway, I am done

No one else seems to be listening to john. So it is not like I need to convince them that John is wrong

Carry on!
😂😂😂😂😂

Genesis 49:28
All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them. This is the body of Christ.

Exodus 24:4
And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes ofIsrael. Also the body of Christ

Exodus 28:21
And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes. Also the body of Christ

Exodus 39:14
And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes. Also the body of Christ
1 Kings 18:31
And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: Also the body of Christ

Ezra 6:17
And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel. Also the body of Christ

Ezekiel 47:13
Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.Also the body of Christ

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.Also the body of Christ

Luke 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Also the body of Christ

Acts 26:7
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. Also the body of Christ

James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. Also the body of Christ

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelveangels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: Also the body of Christ
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
THEY are 100% bloodline of Israel. The 144,000 are an equal number of EACH of the 12 Tribes of ISRAEL, LITERALLY.

NO, Gentile Believers, are NOT a substitute FOR ISRAEL.

AND NEVER, EVER DO GENTILE BELIEVERS BECOME part of ISRAEL. Grafted IN does not mean you become ISRAEL, any more than Grafted IN English Walnuts, EVER BECOME BLACK WALNUTS:


-

-


There are a ENGLISH WALNUT Groves in California. NOTICE THE BLACK WALNUT TRUNKS. They do that because Black Walnut Trunks have deeper Roots (more water), and more STABILITY during the Valley's high winds, and Black Walnuts are more disease resistant, and are more resistant to bugs and worms that burl into the Root System. NEVER DO THE ENGLISH WALNUT BRANCHES EVER PRODUCE BLACK WALNUT NUTS. And NEVER does a Gentile Believer become part of ISRAEL. You have misinterpreted that.

HERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU WENT WRONG!

The LITERAL INTERPRETATION in the following verses, is the CORRECT ONE. These Mortal Jews are protected to go into the Millennial Kingdom to repopulate ISRAEL, to carry on the LORD's COVENANT WITH ISRAEL.

1 Chronicles 16:15-20 (HCSB)
15 Remember His covenant forever— the promise He ordained for a thousand generations, {A number symbolizing infinity.}
16 ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
17 and confirmed to Jacob as a decree, and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
18 I will give the land of Canaan to you as your inherited portion.”
19 When they were few in number, very few indeed, and temporary residents in Canaan
20 wandering from nation to nation and from one kingdom to another,

Revelation 7:1-8 (NIV)
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:
3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."
4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

These are the Sealed Jews in their MORTAL bodies, protecting them from harm, during TRIBLULATION, for GOD has destined them to Repopulate ISRAEL, during the Millennial Kingdom.

And apparently YOU COVET THOSE MORTALS, because apparently, you want to inherit the LAND of CANAAN. Shame on you!


If you are a true Believer, somehow I doubt that, WE GO INTO THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, in our GLORIFIED IMMORTAL BODIES.
Who is the book of James addressed to?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
What? Just the opposite my friend. The twelve tribes is a reference to to the physical people of Israel, not Christians. The book of James is addressed to the twelve tribes.

YOU FLIP FLOP LIKE A SEASONED DEMOCRATIC POLITICIAN. I got better things to do than to waist time debating you.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I called you out by name.
I even copied the post for everyone to see.
Then asked several people if they agreed with you.
I could care less...you called me out on nothing pal.....you are nothing more than a peddler of a false religion dude...not of God for sure....!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Who is the book of James addressed to?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

TO ALL OF US, it does not matter who he addressed to. IT APPLY TO YOU AND ME, JUST BE SURE you Interpret it Correctly.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (GW)
16 Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.
17 They equip God's servants so that they are completely prepared to do good things.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


So it does not matter who James wrote to, IT IS GOD SPEAKING TO YOU.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You are the one being dishonest. You know full well this represents your new osas exactly:

"Let us do evil (go back to the life of sin and unbelief), that good may come (you retain salvation)?"

You explain how that isn't making grace a license to sin--in the most grievous of ways.
What a liar....dude...give it up....you claim Christ but deny him everytime you misrepresent the truth like you do in this post ..!!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
TO ALL OF US, it does not matter who he addressed to. IT APPLY TO YOU AND ME, JUST BE SURE you Interpret it Correctly.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (GW)
16 Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval.
17 They equip God's servants so that they are completely prepared to do good things.
It most certainly matters who it is addressed to. God addressed Noah to build snark. Have you built an ark? Why not? You realize those specific instructions are not to you. All throughout Scripture you need to ask, who is God addressing, and to whom does this apply?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Who is the book of James addressed to?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


I WONDERED HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO DISMISS THIS VERSE AS IF IT WAS NOT GOD SPEAKING TO YOU. TELL YOUR PASTOR ABOUT THAT FALSE THEORY, HE WILL WANT TO CORRECT YOU.

James 2:10 (HCSB)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of ⌊breaking it⌋ all.
 
Apr 19, 2020
64
22
8
Wrong......... the very fact they coupled "their works" with their belief demonstrates they never believed.

There person who who trusts in Christ alone obeys completely the will of the Father to believe in Jesus Christ alone for eternal salvation.
The scriptures make very clear saying we believe without doing something in evidence of that belief, would belie our claim and make our belief or faith, according to James 2 dead. Even in your statement above you mention the need to ‘Obey’ the will of the Father. Take as an example our earthly fathers. We could claim we believe what they tell us to do is right. But if they tell us to do something and we don’t ‘Do’ it or in other words don’t ‘Obey’ them, our belief alone that they are right will not please them. Likewise with our heavenly Father. He has specific things he tells us to do, through his Son Jesus. The scriptures are full of instructions/commands/guidelines/principles that God expects us to obey if we profess to be Christian. To obey takes action, in other words, we need to do something to show we obey. Jesus showed us by his own example what we need to do to imitate him and follow in his footsteps. If we feel saying we believe in Jesus without doing anything to demonstrate that faith, I believe we are missing a very important message from scripture.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
I WONDERED HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO DISMISS THIS VERSE AS IF IT WAS NOT GOD SPEAKING TO YOU. TELL YOUR PASTOR ABOUT THAT FALSE THEORY, HE WILL WANT TO CORRECT YOU.

James 2:10 (HCSB)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of ⌊breaking it⌋ all.
Brother, there are fundamental truths that can equally be applied no matter the dispensation. For instance, the tongue is like a fire. That’s true living before the law, under the law, after the cross, and in the tribulation. But there are specific doctrines that can only be applied to the Jew, Gentile, or body of Christ.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The scriptures make very clear saying we believe without doing something in evidence of that belief, would belie our claim and make our belief or faith, according to James 2 dead. Even in your statement above you mention the need to ‘Obey’ the will of the Father. Take as an example our earthly fathers. We could claim we believe what they tell us to do is right. But if they tell us to do something and we don’t ‘Do’ it or in other words don’t ‘Obey’ them, our belief alone that they are right will not please them. Likewise with our heavenly Father. He has specific things he tells us to do, through his Son Jesus. The scriptures are full of instructions/commands/guidelines/principles that God expects us to obey if we profess to be Christian. To obey takes action, in other words, we need to do something to show we obey. Jesus showed us by his own example what we need to do to imitate him and follow in his footsteps. If we feel saying we believe in Jesus without doing anything to demonstrate that faith, I believe we are missing a very important message from scripture.
Read carefully....

This is the work that proves salvation...

Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”

Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe IN the One He has sent.”

John 6:28-29
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
The scriptures make very clear saying we believe without doing something in evidence of that belief, would belie our claim and make our belief or faith, according to James 2 dead.
One of the examples supplied in James 2 is when Abraham "offered up Isaac".

Do you believe there was question in God's mind (about Abraham's being 'justified') in the MANY YEARS between the time the following was said of him: "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" [Romans 4:3] and the MUCH LATER point in time when he "offered up Isaac" (which, again, was MANY YEARS LATER) ?

Even in your statement above you mention the need to ‘Obey’ the will of the Father. Take as an example our earthly fathers. We could claim we believe what they tell us to do is right. But if they tell us to do something and we don’t ‘Do’ it or in other words don’t ‘Obey’ them, our belief alone that they are right will not please them. Likewise with our heavenly Father. He has specific things he tells us to do, through his Son Jesus. The scriptures are full of instructions/commands/guidelines/principles that God expects us to obey if we profess to be Christian. To obey takes action, in other words, we need to do something to show we obey. Jesus showed us by his own example what we need to do to imitate him and follow in his footsteps.
If we feel saying we believe in Jesus without doing anything to demonstrate that faith, I believe we are missing a very important message from scripture.
Ditto my above paragraph. = )




[P.S. Abraham was called the friend of God BY OTHER MEN, 2Chron20:7--"Abraham thy friend"]
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
You are the one being dishonest. You know full well this represents your new osas exactly:

"Let us do evil (go back to the life of sin and unbelief), that good may come (you retain salvation)?"

You explain how that isn't making grace a license to sin--in the most grievous of ways.
What a liar....dude...give it up....you claim Christ but deny him everytime you misrepresent the truth like you do in this post ..!!
Explain what is misrepresented about your osas belief in what I posted.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Explain what is misrepresented about your osas belief in what I posted.
You spreading and accusing US of the same dog crap false allegations the Pharisees accused Paul of because HE EMBRACED GRACE that outbounds ALL SIN and ETERNAL LIFE MAINTAINED by Christ.....mke no mistake you are false, what you peddle is false and your self maintained faith holds NO SWAY with Christ, nor is it even close to being biblical....as a matter of fact, what you peddle is sickening and 100% against Christ!
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
Have you built an ark? Why not? You realize those specific instructions are not to you. All throughout Scripture you need to ask, who is God addressing, and to whom does this apply?
You don’t need Dispensational Theology to discern that God only instructed Noah to build the ark. Basic comprehension in what is narrative and what is instruction solves this particular issue you brought up. There’s also application to the body of Christ here; the ark represents salvation, and those who did not enter the ark represent those who do not believe the gospel today.

Again, these are things that are easily comprehended without the aid of a man made theology. All scripture taken in totality can be rightly divided in of itself.