Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Jackson123]

Yes, Satan is also at work in Christian churches, isn't he? He causes divisions and strife and all kinds of other works of the flesh!

Do you believe Martin Luther follow Satan order to make devisions and start Protestant church?

 

[Nehemiah6]

So you believe the world = the whole World

What else? "The world" means the whole world of humanity.

 

[Jackson123]

is that what you are saying, or is that what you believe the Catholics are saying? If it turns out that in the Catholic view, the plan of salvation is intended to cover the entire world, then the Muslim belief in a Creator is not the thing that includes them in the plan of salvation

If catholic believe the plan of salvation for every body. Than it is wasting time to say the plan of salvation include those who acknowledge the creator

Example : say your church have 1000 member
The church will celebrate chrismast

Every body invited.

You don't need to say, john you are invited, Sam you are invited etc 1000 named
That is not smart thing to do

Say: every member are invited, save time and money

 

[Jackson123]

No, I did not say that. I was using the verse about John the Baptist to see if you agreed that in that context, John was saying that Jesus came to take away the sins of the world. I brought that up because if that's the case, then it would seem that essentially you would be believing that the plan of salvation covers the whole world

I believe it mean God intend to save every body, but the Bible go on and say, if you want save, believe in Jesus. So

 

[Jackson123]

I don't think it's a trap, I think you are perceiving it as a trap because you have taken away the wrong implication. I think this is in part because you didn't read the entire lumen gentium, or at least have a good understanding of Catholic theology. Do you remember the quote about the danger of looking at a particular formulation in isolation?

I believe lg is danger whether you read as a whole or part

 

[Nehemiah6]

Does not our Lord give an indulgence to the servant who knew not but was worthy of punishment.

"is that what our lord is talking about in Luke 11:41. or Luke12:47-48." Of course not. These passages have nothing to do with indulgences or Purgatory.

LUKE 11:41: ALMSGIVING MORE IMPORTANT THAN WASHING CUPS AND PLATES
But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. [Note: this was addressed to the Jews who made much of ceremonial washings, but their hearts were not right and they also hated Christ]

LUKE 12:47-48: PROFESSING CHRISTIANS = UNBELIEVERS
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

This parable speaks of those who claim to be servants of Christ, but are not really saved, and therefore not serving God properly, nor looking for the coming of Christ. They are considered unbelievers because they are not children of God who have experienced the New Birth.

 

[garee]

The Catholic church

Cash cow? is that what our lord is talking about in Luke 11:41. or Luke12:47-48. Does not our Lord give an indulgence to the servant who knew not but was worthy of punishment.

Each person receives the same. Eternal life using a penny . Some murmured.

Catholicism simply has another foundation of necromancy. Seeking the workers of familiar spirits called patron saints .(3500 and rising) picking up speed as the end becomes nearer. the bible calls them a abomination. King Josiah who found the book of the law the bible put an end to that abomination as the Holy Spirit in him moved .

Catholicism simply avoids like a plague the author of Christian faith .Our unseen father in heaven .

There kind of faith has another written authority that they must believe is Devine even though by looking ahead they can see that does not ring true. Just like the illusion of bread as real flesh and blood. Enough to fill the ocean. They have one under glass on display that can be venerated (worshipped) and photos showing wafers turned to blood in the mouth as false sources of faith that take away the understanding of God's book of the law .

No man can serve teaching masters as written laws.

Call no man on earth Teaching as Good Master one is our Holy Father in heaven .

Catholicism simply naturally unredeemed mankind looking to the things seen having no faith that comes under solo scriptura. The same kind of division between the Moslem and there Koran book of law and the Christians . or Mormons and their book of the law of men. Or any of the pagan religious disciplines founding their faith on that seen the temporal.

They influenced by the god of this world that needs flesh to work out his desire. like the Acts account tried to make the written law of God without effect so that they could follow after the pagan nations of this world.

Saul who served under the law of the fathers (out of sight out of mind) was converted by the hearing of the faith of God that worked in Paul to both will and do the god pleasure of our unseen father. Those he previously served moved Paul who had become a member of the Nazarene denomination or called The Way to the most wanted list to remove from their sight . Like Cain and Abel.

Note.... Two different written laws apposing each other . The law of men that they claim as Sacred Devine (#80 of the Catholic law of the fathers). as oral traditions of sinful men who appose the law of our father not seen.(sola scriptura) the nemesis.


For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. Acts24: 5

Those who do hold to another authority other than as it is written by the finger of God. They simply blaspheme the holy Spirit and make void the power to seek after him who has no form. Rather than seeking the approval of the corrupted seen. Called a daysman or Pope .

Like in all cases natural man, naturally turns things upside down as if we are revealed the unseen things of God as the very things of men seen.

The Father un seen through His prophet the Son rebuked the father of lies Satan. Get behind me, not Peter. Exposing the man of sin or man who does sin as blasphemy . Peter was forgiven for blaspheming the Son of man seen the temporal the devil fled. . (Mathew 16:23 )

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. (Mathew 16:23 )


Saul previously the hunter (out of sight out of mind) became Paul the hunted. God having turned right side up.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:13-14

The key. . . "so worship I the God of my fathers" according to as it is written ,. Not as previous so I worshipped the law of the fathers as a deceived false zeal for knowing God. Refusing to know the father by faith .They create their source of faith as laws of men

Law of the Catholic fathers . beginning with veneration their sacred flesh

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."

 

[Jackson123]

is that what you are saying, or is that what you believe the Catholics are saying? If it turns out that in the Catholic view, the plan of salvation is intended to cover the entire world, then the Muslim belief in a Creator is not the thing that includes them in the plan of salvation.


No, I did not say that. I was using the verse about John the Baptist to see if you agreed that in that context, John was saying that Jesus came to take away the sins of the world. I brought that up because if that's the case, then it would seem that essentially you would be believing that the plan of salvation covers the whole world.

But I'm still waiting to hear your take on how you understand that verse!


I don't think it's a trap, I think you are perceiving it as a trap because you have taken away the wrong implication. I think this is in part because you didn't read the entire lumen gentium, or at least have a good understanding of Catholic theology. Do you remember the quote about the danger of looking at a particular formulation in isolation?


Again, it depends how many things something has to have in common with something else to be called the same thing!

Maybe you have heard of this example: suppose you take a ship and replace one board on it with a different one. Is it still the same ship?

One Greek philosopher said you can't get into the same river twice.

My friend, you try to make an analogy.
To my knowledge analogy not a tool to prove some thing only a tool to explain
Salvation is not a board
If you travel to New York and take a bus that go to LA, you will not arrive in New York

 

[garee]

So Acknowledging the creator but not acknowledging Jesus will include the plan of salvation ?

Now next step is

Together with us adore the one and merciful God, mankind judge ...

Do Muslim god same as Christian god

Mankin judge is jesus, do Muslim store Jesus as god?

Muslim not only don't believe Jesus as god but not die on the cross

Both are the main doctrine of christianity

Believe creator and his name is not only Odin but lucifer. Because attack Jesus. Bible say if one deny Jesus as god, it is not from the Holy Spirit. I believe lucifer behind Jesus attacker.

The Muslims simply have another written law. Oral traditions of men and not of God our unseen Father.

Sola scriptura the reforming restoring authority in any generation, and sect, any family, any believer that walks with Christ as two walking together as if they were one.

 

[Dan_473]

Do you believe Martin Luther follow Satan order to make devisions and start Protestant church?

I don't know about Martin Luther. I've heard that he didn't intend to cause a split in the church, and that he considered himself Catholic until he died.

I was thinking more about modern divisions within churches today. For example, when I was growing up, we considered ourselves Superior to many other churches because we spoke in tongues. So that's a kind of division, Superior and inferior.

 

[Dan_473]

If catholic believe the plan of salvation for every body. Than it is wasting time to say the plan of salvation include those who acknowledge the creator

I disagree. I think there are important implications and connotations going on.

 

[Dan_473]

I believe it mean God intend to save every body, but the Bible go on and say, if you want save, believe in Jesus. So

Right, that intention to save everyone is what I think the lumen gentium means when it says the plan of salvation.

But yes, that doesn't mean that everyone is saved!

 

[Dan_473]

I believe lg is danger whether you read as a whole or part

Of course you're welcome to your opinion.

If you only read a small part of a long document, is there a greater chance of misunderstanding then if you read most or all of it?

 

[Dan_473]

My friend, you try to make an analogy.
To my knowledge analogy not a tool to prove some thing only a tool to explain
Salvation is not a board
If you travel to New York and take a bus that go to LA, you will not arrive in New York

An analogy is a tool for understanding, imo.

How many beliefs about God do two people have to have in common in order to be worshiping the same God?

For example, some Christians say God created the Earth about 6,000 years ago. Some Christians say God created the Earth over 4 billion years ago. Are they worshiping the same God?

 

[Jackson123]

James 2
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Devil acknowledge god is devil in the plan of salvation?

 

[Jackson123]

An analogy is a tool for understanding, imo.

How many beliefs about God do two people have to have in common in order to be worshiping the same God?

For example, some Christians say God created the Earth about 6,000 years ago. Some Christians say God created the Earth over 4 billion years ago. Are they worshiping the same God?

At least believe Jesus God and die for us.
This is the main doctrine of who is God.

 

[Jackson123]

The Muslims simply have another written law. Oral traditions of men and not of God our unseen Father.

Sola scriptura the reforming restoring authority in any generation, and sect, any family, any believer that walks with Christ as two walking together as if they were one.

And is not worship and share the same god with Christian

 

[Jackson123]

I disagree. I think there are important implications and connotations going on.

And what is the connotation ?

 

[Jackson123]

Right, that intention to save everyone is what I think the lumen gentium means when it says the plan of salvation.

But yes, that doesn't mean that everyone is saved!

So lg say Muslim in the plan of salvation doesn't mean every Muslim save, than what kind of Muslim will save

 

[JaumeJ]

When our Father calls His children out of the Great Harlot, it is certain He will do the same with her daughters, for they are the same. Santa Claus and dthe Easter Rabbit...not a whole lot of difference.