Not By Works

[azamzimtoti]

But if I'm wrong, show me you have God's approval--1 Corinthians 11:19.

You show me first seeing as you think you have this approval.

 

[Judges1318]

The Galatian believers did not lose salvation. Period.

If they persisted in their rejection of Christ for justification they would have indeed lost their salvation.
We will see what they did at the resurrection.

 

[Judges1318]

Actually in some respects John146 is on the right track, he's misapplying it some what, whereas you are totally misunderstanding Hebrews and it's audience relevance and time frame.

The Hebrew church was not under a different truth than the rest of the church at the time the letter was written, nor are they now. Nor will they be in the future.

 

[John146]

You're not getting it.
It has nothing to do with the Galatians themselves.
I'm showing you that the Abrahamic Covenant was never replaced.....for anybody!
The covenant of works does not exist, and never did exist, that somehow the Jews are under it while we gentiles are under a covenant of grace.
No Jew will ever be under a so-called covenant of works for justification, not now, not in times past, or in the future.

Abraham is a type of NT believer but not identical. Abraham did not have the faith of Christ given to him. In fact, Galatians tells us it was not even available to him. You wouldn’t see this reading your perverted new version. Get yourself a KJV and allow the Lord to speak to you through His word.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[Judges1318]

You show me first seeing as you think you have this approval.

Just pay attention and you'll see.
And be more mature in your assessment of what is approved by God and what isn't.

 

[azamzimtoti]

The Hebrew church was not under a different truth than the rest of the church at the time the letter was written, nor are they now. Nor will they be in the future.

That's your opinion and obviously you are sticking to that - as I've said you are zooming in on the parts you think prove your "stance" without considering context - this is quite common so your are not alone in doing this.

 

[Judges1318]

That's your opinion and obviously you are sticking to that - as I've said you are zooming in on the parts you think prove your "stance" without considering context - this is quite common so your are not alone in doing this.

Feel free to produce the context you are sure I'm missing.

 

[Judges1318]

Abraham is a type of NT believer but not identical. Abraham did not have the faith of Christ given to him. In fact, Galatians tells us it was not even available to him. You wouldn’t see this reading your perverted new version. Get yourself a KJV and allow the Lord to speak to you through His word.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Faith had not been revealed to the Hebrew church?

 

[John146]

Faith had not been revealed to the Hebrew church?

Hebrew Church? You mean the Jews in the last days? That’s the context of the book of Hebrews, not the body of Christ.

I was speaking of Galatians and Abraham.

 

[southie]

Faith had not been revealed to the Hebrew church?

Actually I use the vulgate version over sixteen hundred years old in fact a thousand years before the printing press. Pax Vobiscum Southie

 

[azamzimtoti]

Feel free to produce the context you are sure I'm missing.

Unfortunately this would take an extended explanation of all the audience relevant scriptures and a massive paradigm shift for you.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Just pay attention and you'll see.
And be more mature in your assessment of what is approved by God and what isn't.

That's some kind of answer? - I have been paying attention by the way, there you go again claiming I'm not mature but claiming you are.

You need to get a new canard.

Ever read dis bit:

(2 Cor 10:12 For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding. )

 

[azamzimtoti]

Actually I use the vulgate version over sixteen hundred years old in fact a thousand years before the printing press. Pax Vobiscum Southie

So how does using the Vulgate version enter into the discussion southie?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Suffering will not save you!!!!

It is a quality in the believer who is in fact saved according to the Bible.

PRECEPT...
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake (Philippians 1:29).

UPON PRECEPT...
Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Hebrew Church? You mean the Jews in the last days? That’s the context of the book of Hebrews, not the body of Christ.

I was speaking of Galatians and Abraham.

You do not get Dispensationalism from the scriptures.

It's a tradition of men that make the word of God of none effect in many portions of scripture. Much like the Once Saved, Always Saved doctrine.

 

[John146]

You do not get Dispensationalism from the scriptures.

It's a tradition of men that make the word of God of none effect in many portions of scripture. Much like the Once Saved, Always Saved doctrine.

You’re a dispensationalist and don’t know it. You divide the scriptures from which part you obey and which part you do not obey.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

You’re a dispensationalist and don’t know it. You divide the scriptures from which part you obey and which part you do not obey.

I dispense the word according to unleavened Bible reading and with the understanding and wisdom God gives me.

You seem to dispense the Bible leavened with the understanding of Dispensational Theology.

 

[John146]

I dispense the word according to unleavened Bible reading and with the understanding and wisdom God gives me.

You seem to dispense the Bible leavened with the understanding of Dispensational Theology.

Through the context of who God is writing. Most of scripture is written to the Jews. Paul’s letters are specifically to the body of Christ.

 

[walknlight]

Matt 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

G264 ἀμαρτάνω amartano (a-mar-ta'-nō) v.
ἁμαρτάνω hamartano (ha-mar-ta'-nō) [traditional]
1. (specifically) to morally fail (through action or inaction, through contemplation or deed).
2. (specifically) to be morally disqualified.
3. (properly) to disqualify oneself from receiving a portion or share (of the reward or prize), whether unintentionally or intentionally.
4. (of sports) to fail to play or compete within the rules.
5. (concretely, especially) to fail to do uprightly and completely (at any time, in any deed, word, or thought).
6. (generally) to do wrong, sin, infringe, commit an infraction or break a rule.

So the one who trespasses loses salvation?

...so silly...

And then

Matt 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Matt 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

G264 ἀμαρτάνω amartano (a-mar-ta'-nō) v.
ἁμαρτάνω hamartano (ha-mar-ta'-nō) [traditional]
1. (specifically) to morally fail (through action or inaction, through contemplation or deed).
2. (specifically) to be morally disqualified.
3. (properly) to disqualify oneself from receiving a portion or share (of the reward or prize), whether unintentionally or intentionally.
4. (of sports) to fail to play or compete within the rules.
5. (concretely, especially) to fail to do uprightly and completely (at any time, in any deed, word, or thought).
6. (generally) to do wrong, sin, infringe, commit an infraction or break a rule.

7x70= 490 times per day....

We all "miss the mark" between 1 and 490 times a day....

1 JOHN 1:9
Forgiven.......

 

[VCO]

Abraham is a type of NT believer but not identical. Abraham did not have the faith of Christ given to him.
. . .

Abraham is the MODEL of FAITH of ALL BELIEVERS, not just a TYPE, but IDENTICAL.

Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.


Now there is Scripture that identifies the FAITH of Abraham. It does not take more that SIMPLE LOGIC to figure out HOW that FAITH is IDENTICAL to the FAITH of BOTH O.T. true Believers and N.T true Believers. WHY DO I SAY IT MUST BE IDENTICAL ? ? ?

Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

GOD PLAN OF SALVATION HAS BEEN THE EXACT SAME SINCE ADAM SINNED.
And YOU thought they were saved a DIFFERENT WAY.

LOOK at how ABRAHAM WAS SAVED above. HE DID NOT WORK FOR HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. HE BELIEVED GOD!

WHERE DOES THAT SAVING FAITH COME FROM ? ? ?

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NCV)
8 I mean that you have been saved by grace through believing. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.
9 It was not the result of your own efforts, so you cannot brag about it.


SO SAVING FAITH CAME FROM GOD AS PART OF THE GIFT OF GOD.
And you thought YOU thought it up, and reasoned it out, NOT.

Abraham SAW THAT GOD PROVIDED a Substitute Temporary SACRIFICE of a Ram, and KNEW GOD WOULD PROVIDE A MESSIAH TO OFFER A BETTER SACRIFICE.

O.T. Believers or FOLD are those who BELIEVED GOD would send a MESSIAH to pay for their SINS.

N.T. Believers or FOLD are those who BELIEVED GOD DID send a MESSIAH to pay for our SINS.

THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, THE IDENTICAL FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

NEVER WERE O.T. ASSEMBLY OR FOLD, SAVED BY KEEPING THE LAW. THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW WAS TO PROVE THEY NEEDED A MESSIAH, BECAUSE THEY CANNOT KEEP THE LAW PERFECTLY.

Now why did I call them the O.T. Fold or ASSEMBLY and N.T Fold or ASSEMBLY ? ? ?

IT WAS THE TWO TERMS THAT JESUS CALLED BOTH GROUPS OF BELIEVERS, O.T. and N.T. Saints.

NO, JESUS and the Apostles NEVER used the word CHURCH.

Acts 11:25-26 (HCSB)
25 Then he went to Tarsus to search for Saul,
26 and when he found him he brought him to Antioch.
For a whole year they met with the church and taught large numbers.
The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.

HOW CAN the TERM Jesus used be 🡩 Church, before the time, that CHURCH was first used.

What did JESUS call us when He said, "I WILL BUILD MY _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _"
ASSEMBLY, the same thing He Called the O.T. Fold. You can look that up.

John 10:1 (ASV)
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 10:16 (HCSB)
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold {O.T. Fold} ; I must bring them also {N.T. Fold must be complete}, and they will listen to My voice. {When the N.T. Fold is complete, then the TWO become one FLOCK, at the Calling Out of the BRIDE.} Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

YEP, that Means the True Jewish Believers of the O.T. are also PART OF THE BRIDE, too, because they BELIEVED in MESSIAH.
Some of you will be rather EMBARRASSED when the O.T. Jews come in, because THEIR FAITH IN MESSIAH, QUALIFIES THEM TO BE THERE.