Three Gods or one? Explain the Trinity.

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Diakonos

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Jan 19, 2019
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OK then it's still English that was translated from the Greek.

So let me ask it this way:
Do you think the NASB, translated Bible is more truthful than what the Beloved Disciple John taught to his own Disciples?
I will answer your question when you answer mine. Please read post #219 and tell me who is speaking in that verse
 
Apr 5, 2020
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@biker

Please answer me this:

"Today, if you would hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,
As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,
9 “When your fathers tested Me,
They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
10 “For forty years I loathed that generation,
And said they are a people who err in their heart,
And they do not know My ways.
11 “Therefore I swore in My anger,
Truly they shall not enter into My rest
.”"
-Psalm 95:7-11

Who is speaking in this verse?


Since the Hebrews taught us to read the Word in 3rd person, that is David talking inspired by the Holy Spirit.
 

Diakonos

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Jan 19, 2019
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Since the Hebrews taught us to read the Word in 3rd person, that is David talking inspired by the Holy Spirit.
David is clearly the writer. And David is inspired by the spirit the whole time. David is the obvious speaker because he is speaking about God until verse 9. Starting in verse 9, it says

"When your fathers tested Me,
They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
10 “For forty years I loathed that generation,
And said they are a people who err in their heart,
And they do not know My ways.
11 “Therefore I swore in My anger,
Truly they shall not enter into My rest.

Who is speaking now?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Do you think the KJV translated Bible is more truthful than what the Beloved Disciple John taught to his own Disciples?
did the first few church father generations believe the spirit was a person? this third person mentioned at the first church Nicea council?
 
Apr 5, 2020
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did the first few church father generations believe the spirit was a person? this third person mentioned at the first church Nicea council?

This what I am pasting is from the Church Fathers. It claims the Holy Spirit is inside of God like it is inside us. And the WORD is beside God like we read in John 1:1.

The copy/paste:
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
 
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This explanation by the Church Fathers seems more like Manifestations, not Persons:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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David is clearly the writer. And David is inspired by the spirit the whole time. David is the obvious speaker because he is speaking about God until verse 9. Starting in verse 9, it says

"When your fathers tested Me,
They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
10 “For forty years I loathed that generation,
And said they are a people who err in their heart,
And they do not know My ways.
11 “Therefore I swore in My anger,
Truly they shall not enter into My rest.

Who is speaking now?

That is the Lord speaking via the Holy Spirit.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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That is the Lord speaking via the Holy Spirit.
According to Hebrews 3:7-11, this is explicitly the voice of the Holy Spirit. The phrase “When your fathers tested Me, tried Me, though they had seen My work” proves that the Holy Spirit is God.

The speaker here is not the Father OR the Son. This is the Holy Spirit speaking directly.
The Holy Spirit is God according to the Bible.
He is also called God in Acts chapter 5.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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According to Hebrews 3:7-11, this is explicitly the voice of the Holy Spirit. The phrase “When your fathers tested Me, tried Me, though they had seen My work” proves that the Holy Spirit is God.

The speaker here is not the Father OR the Son. This is the Holy Spirit speaking directly.
The Holy Spirit is God according to the Bible.
He is also called God in Acts chapter 5.


BRB I have an issue here
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
This what I am pasting is from the Church Fathers. It claims the Holy Spirit is inside of God like it is inside us. And the WORD is beside God like we read in John 1:1.

The copy/paste:
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
from what i remember the first few councils were dealing with Jesus, His nature and was Jesus the Most High. the spirit does not get into the equation until much later. so we can conclude few if any up to that point believed the spirit was a person.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
How can Jesus be God, the Spirit be God and the Father be God?
There is only one God. God the Father is the Holy Spirit. Jesus the Christ was Holy Spirit God. He was to be named Emmanuel, meaning, "God with us". Found in the Book of Matthew chapter 28.

1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

14. Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, andthat there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

25. Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

27. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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There is only one God. God the Father is the Holy Spirit. Jesus the Christ was Holy Spirit God. He was to be named Emmanuel, meaning, "God with us". Found in the Book of Matthew chapter 28.

1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

14. Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, andthat there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

25. Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

27. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Who is Jesus Christ?

There is only one God. God the Father is the Holy Spirit. Jesus the Christ was Holy Spirit God. He was to be named Emmanuel, meaning, "God with us". Found in the Book of Matthew chapter 28.
Where did you get this statement from?
What group believes this?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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your not getting the answer you want to hear, thats not my fault



through Him, Jesus, all things were created, i agree, but to me it does not mean Jesus alone created all this.





this is where your idea breaks down, to teach people the Father had no part in creation is not very wise. it contridicts scripture. your cherry picking little passages to try and puzzle peice this thing together and when you do this it leaves you with egg on your face, like i demonstrated with Peter in the garden which you didnt seem to understand.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

all reality as we know it came from the Father but your idea says different.
You are watchtower aren't you?
I have debated these people
They have that same deflection.
Exact same deflection.

through Him, Jesus, all things were created, i agree, but to me it does not mean Jesus alone created all this.
....even though i literally stuck your nose in it,your doctrine (which has watchtower alignment) will not allow you to agree with the word.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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your not getting the answer you want to hear, thats not my fault



through Him, Jesus, all things were created, i agree, but to me it does not mean Jesus alone created all this.





this is where your idea breaks down, to teach people the Father had no part in creation is not very wise. it contridicts scripture. your cherry picking little passages to try and puzzle peice this thing together and when you do this it leaves you with egg on your face, like i demonstrated with Peter in the garden which you didnt seem to understand.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

all reality as we know it came from the Father but your idea says different.
this is where your idea breaks down, to teach people the Father had no part in creation is not very wise. it contridicts scripture. your cherry picking little passages to try and puzzle peice this thing together and when you do this it leaves you with egg on your face, like i demonstrated with Peter in the garden which you didnt seem to understand.
So you have the father as co-creator?

My question would be WHY DO YOU NEED THE VERSES I POSTED TO BE REFRAMED?
YOU NEED MY VERSES REFRAMED.
STOP ACTING LIKE ONE VERSE CANCELS 6.
YOU ARE IN A MAJOR,MAJOR CONFLICT WITH THE WORD OF GOD.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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not 100% sure on the true name, im just a commoner.

Exodus 20:7
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Proverbs 18:10
The name of the Lord is a strong tower; the righteous man runs into it and is safe.

but i think its safe to say the the Most High does in fact have a name.
Your deal aligns perfectly again with watchtower doctrine
Can you say Jehovah?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Hello,

"Hashem Echad" God is One!

The Hebrew word Echad translates One. However, echad/one, means UNITY not SINGULARITY.

Echad examples: Deut 6:4, Gen 2:24 echad speaks about the husband & wife being ONE flesh. Husband & wife aren't a singular being. When joined they are in unity with each other.

There is another Hebrew word, YACHID, this word means ABSOLUTE SINGULARITY. Yachid is never used as a reference to God.

Gen 1:1 BRESHEET BARA ELOHIM = In the beginning God created. The word God is Elohim. Any Hebrew noun ending in "im" is plural.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let "us" make man in "our" image. Parsing vs 26: And "Elohim/God said" (not god's) Let "us" (not me or I) make man in "our" image

Gen 11:
7 Let "us" go down, & there confound their language

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, & who will go for "us"? Then said I, Here am I; send me (Isa 6:8 48:16 & 61:1)

In these 3 passages, the plural pronoun for 'Us' is used. That 'Elohim' & 'us' refers to more than TWO is without question. In English, you only have two forms: singular & plural

In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual & plural. Dual is for TWO only. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs example: eyes, ears, & hands & the pronoun 'us' are plural forms. Definitely more than 2 & must be referring to 3 or more. Father, Son, & Holy Spirit!

Holy Spirit, was also an agent in creation (Gen 1:2)

Since the Hebrew word for “spirit” is often translated as “wind” or “breath,” we can see the activity of all three persons of the "Godhead" in one verse: By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth” (Ps 33:6)
Yes the word has all 3 as co creators.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I understand the Trinity as ONE God in essence/nature, yet three distinct persons who are co-equal: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t claim to fully comprehend this, but I apprehend it.

As a child, I was very confused about the Trinity. I saw God the Father as all powerful, all knowing etc.. and Jesus as inferior to God the Father (junior) yet still very powerful and I thought the Holy Spirit was a bunch of guardian angels. I was one confused child!
That would be to your benefit to be exposed to the real deal and grasp it.
You should see what some posts here are doing to the person of Jesus.
I had no idea that that erroneous mess was on this board.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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most likely does not mean they were we just don't know. what do know the Manuscripts are copies of what was written and it was Greek We do know the Old Testament was written inHebrew that we do know the first five Books known as the pentateuch
Yeah I agree, there are many ifs and buts here. We can only work with facts.

Facts are:

Jesus was a Torah obeying Jew that understood the Greek culture. Read OT in Hebrew.
Matthew, John and Luke were Torah obeying Jews that understood the Greek culture. Read OT in Hebrew.
The disciples at first thought their gospels were written for Jews. The Jews read OT in Hebrew.

And so we can go on, but like I said, slim pickings out of a lot of ifs and buts.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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According to Hebrews 3:7-11, this is explicitly the voice of the Holy Spirit. The phrase “When your fathers tested Me, tried Me, though they had seen My work” proves that the Holy Spirit is God.

The speaker here is not the Father OR the Son. This is the Holy Spirit speaking directly.
The Holy Spirit is God according to the Bible.
He is also called God in Acts chapter 5.

AMEN!

The Holy Spirit spoke concerning the LORD in the Old Testament like Jesus said would happen in the New Testament where the Holy Spirit confirms all that Jesus, the LORD, claims and reminds us. The Holy Spirit spoke throughout the entire Bible as the writers were God Breathed, or inspired by the Holy Spirit. The beauty of the Verses you use where the Holy Spirit is speaking through David is what happens in the real life situation of Tongues and Interpretation. It's the Holy Spirit speaking.

That still does not mean it is a Person, but a function that God uses to guide us, speak to us, and through us, and it is always confirming what Jesus said.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
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Anacortes, WA
AMEN!

The Holy Spirit spoke concerning the LORD in the Old Testament like Jesus said would happen in the New Testament where the Holy Spirit confirms all that Jesus, the LORD, claims and reminds us. The Holy Spirit spoke throughout the entire Bible as the writers were God Breathed, or inspired by the Holy Spirit. The beauty of the Verses you use where the Holy Spirit is speaking through David is what happens in the real life situation of Tongues and Interpretation. It's the Holy Spirit speaking.

That still does not mean it is a Person, but a function that God uses to guide us, speak to us, and through us.
Since the Holy Spirit is God, then you either have to admit that God is not a person, or that the Holy Spirit is a person.