Animals in Heaven
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so your argument is essentially that a living being not as clever or industrious as you has no soul?
a third time, would you say a child or a simpleton has no soul? someone uneducated?
i don't know what to tell you. you already have been shown that God calls these beings "living souls" just like He calls Adam, that they have the same breath of life as you, that you return to dust just as they do, that they look to God for their needs and recognize Him, while men don't know their Creator and act like they have no faculty to reason. and all this, from scripture. God calls them souls; you don't. God speaks of their spirit; you say they have none. what else can be said?
do we even need to bring up Balaam's ass? God "opened her mouth" and she spoke with reason and heart. does scripture say God "temporarily gave her a soul" so that she could have this intelligence and will? no, scripture says He opened her mouth, that's all. what she said was already in her heart, but she had no way to express it that Balaam would listen to. moreover, she saw and recognized Christ, when intelligent Balaam with all his clever artifices, did not. so much for the cleverness of men. of what use is it?
a third time, would you say a child or a simpleton has no soul? someone uneducated?
i don't know what to tell you. you already have been shown that God calls these beings "living souls" just like He calls Adam, that they have the same breath of life as you, that you return to dust just as they do, that they look to God for their needs and recognize Him, while men don't know their Creator and act like they have no faculty to reason. and all this, from scripture. God calls them souls; you don't. God speaks of their spirit; you say they have none. what else can be said?
do we even need to bring up Balaam's ass? God "opened her mouth" and she spoke with reason and heart. does scripture say God "temporarily gave her a soul" so that she could have this intelligence and will? no, scripture says He opened her mouth, that's all. what she said was already in her heart, but she had no way to express it that Balaam would listen to. moreover, she saw and recognized Christ, when intelligent Balaam with all his clever artifices, did not. so much for the cleverness of men. of what use is it?
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We have gotten off track a little. We are here to answer the question "Does anyone think there are animals in Heaven?"
The answer is obviously "yes" because "the lion will lie down with the lamb". But Scripture doesn't indicate that animals continue after death. So the most simple conclusion that stay within the bounds of the Bible is that animals here and now will cease, but there will be new animals in heaven.
The answer is obviously "yes" because "the lion will lie down with the lamb". But Scripture doesn't indicate that animals continue after death. So the most simple conclusion that stay within the bounds of the Bible is that animals here and now will cease, but there will be new animals in heaven.
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Ty @Diakonos for post #40 I have long understood that the we have a body, soul, spirit. I do agree that the heart is the spirit and I have come to understand that a bit deeper as of late. What confuses me sometimes is the unique relationship that the mind has between flesh and spirit almost as a sort of mediator. Sometimes it is rather frustrating discerning the difference the difference in thinking...flesh vs spirit. The mind seems to work both ways and is the sort of middle ground between the war raging between the other two.
Of course this is not at all simplified because the body could simply be just that...the physical matter that makes us up...unless indeed that physical matter is what is at enmity with the Lord and not the unseen "flesh". I'm confounding myself a tad here now
When I was younger I had terms mixed up and called spirit the soul and the soul I called "personality"...When this topic came up in the 9th grade in OT survey.
And of course "let us make man in OUR image".
Initially I thought this a silly topic but it has caused deeper thought on the subject. I have witnessed and "breathed" the personalities of animals almost native american style quite frankly...I don't get that whole side of things but any time I get super super close to their soul it does seem like spirit but honestly it seems like the Lord in echo format. Much like when you "find God" in nature. You find his echo. The after image of himself in his handiwork but you don't find his direct presence.
I do have a tiny bit of Native American blood in me, and while I don't think that "really" means anything...I have felt a lot of the "spiritual" side of things that is deep in their mysticism but it's either the Lord, unclean spirits, "us", or his echoes. There may be "more" in that there are many beings that are little understood in how they operate such as angels...and without getting all "tolkien" on people...there is probably more to be said but it has not been directly revealed and so we should be suspicious of it.
"God has set eternity in the hearts of man..." No mention of animals.
One could keep going on and on about versus like unto that. I've seen people say a verse in the word about preaching to every creature means (insert broad unprovable statement) which could be applied to animals knowing Jesus as we would but that's absurd.
I think they know their master in a way that we won't in this life...mostly because I think he made them "complete in him" for this temporality. A cow knows how to be a cow for example.
Alas I have become long winded. The energy that sustains each living thing...the "breath" of the Lord could be simple energy. "life's blood" if you will...but the eternal seems to be unfettered to the temporal in the same way. It's a confusing relationship, which I think will become clear when faith is sight and we are glorified but I don't see animals that way.
Animals are like children that aren't children...I've had some deep experiences but for the most part I see them as a picture to understand in the temporal and that they aren't eternal content. They could be re-released I am certain (if...) but since it seems like the Lord is always doing a new thing I don't focus much on it.
Of course this is not at all simplified because the body could simply be just that...the physical matter that makes us up...unless indeed that physical matter is what is at enmity with the Lord and not the unseen "flesh". I'm confounding myself a tad here now
When I was younger I had terms mixed up and called spirit the soul and the soul I called "personality"...When this topic came up in the 9th grade in OT survey.
And of course "let us make man in OUR image".
Initially I thought this a silly topic but it has caused deeper thought on the subject. I have witnessed and "breathed" the personalities of animals almost native american style quite frankly...I don't get that whole side of things but any time I get super super close to their soul it does seem like spirit but honestly it seems like the Lord in echo format. Much like when you "find God" in nature. You find his echo. The after image of himself in his handiwork but you don't find his direct presence.
I do have a tiny bit of Native American blood in me, and while I don't think that "really" means anything...I have felt a lot of the "spiritual" side of things that is deep in their mysticism but it's either the Lord, unclean spirits, "us", or his echoes. There may be "more" in that there are many beings that are little understood in how they operate such as angels...and without getting all "tolkien" on people...there is probably more to be said but it has not been directly revealed and so we should be suspicious of it.
"God has set eternity in the hearts of man..." No mention of animals.
One could keep going on and on about versus like unto that. I've seen people say a verse in the word about preaching to every creature means (insert broad unprovable statement) which could be applied to animals knowing Jesus as we would but that's absurd.
I think they know their master in a way that we won't in this life...mostly because I think he made them "complete in him" for this temporality. A cow knows how to be a cow for example.
Alas I have become long winded. The energy that sustains each living thing...the "breath" of the Lord could be simple energy. "life's blood" if you will...but the eternal seems to be unfettered to the temporal in the same way. It's a confusing relationship, which I think will become clear when faith is sight and we are glorified but I don't see animals that way.
Animals are like children that aren't children...I've had some deep experiences but for the most part I see them as a picture to understand in the temporal and that they aren't eternal content. They could be re-released I am certain (if...) but since it seems like the Lord is always doing a new thing I don't focus much on it.
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I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. Romans 8:18-21
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The Book of Luke chapter 3:
The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,[a]
make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled,
and every mountain and hill shall be made low,
and the crooked shall become straight,
and the rough places shall become level ways,
6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’”
I have a friend who is fond of saying, if all the companion animals she's had in her life aren't waiting for her in Heaven, she's not going! As our animals are of God, His creation, I do believe they will be there waiting for us. At least I pray so. I lost my elderly pup on Tuesday morning. Just two days after I got back home. I pray I will see him again and apologize even more for not being there for all those weeks before he left me in this life.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,[a]
make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled,
and every mountain and hill shall be made low,
and the crooked shall become straight,
and the rough places shall become level ways,
6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’”
I have a friend who is fond of saying, if all the companion animals she's had in her life aren't waiting for her in Heaven, she's not going!
As our animals are of God, His creation, I do believe they will be there waiting for us. At least I pray so. I lost my elderly pup on Tuesday morning. Just two days after I got back home. I pray I will see him again and apologize even more for not being there for all those weeks before he left me in this life.-
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The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
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God created animals, and saw that they were good.
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
*****************************************
God created animals, and saw that they were good.
Isaiah 11: KJV
6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. {7} And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. {8} And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. {9} They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."
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All anyone here can do is speculate...............and, those who love their pets and animals will say yes...........what else would you expect. Not one person here has been to Heaven, so not one person here can say with full assurance what will be in Heaven.
Shoot, folks here can't even agree on WHERE Heaven is!
As for Scriptures...........have to remember that Revelation is FULL of language specifically designed to keep the Romans from understanding what is actually being said. A "code" if you will that the Jews understood in that time. As well, much of Scripture was written as Poetry............ Lots to consider...........especially when there is so much symbolic language in Scripture.
Shoot, folks here can't even agree on WHERE Heaven is!
As for Scriptures...........have to remember that Revelation is FULL of language specifically designed to keep the Romans from understanding what is actually being said. A "code" if you will that the Jews understood in that time. As well, much of Scripture was written as Poetry............ Lots to consider...........especially when there is so much symbolic language in Scripture.
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All the other animals lack a perfection that is natural for us.
That perfection is our likeness to God.
That perfection enables us to unite more intimately with God.
To share His divine nature with us.
This state of being is not their end in God.
That doesn't mean that the other animals aren't present in their own perfections.
I think it possible that as we are in God the other animals are in us.
Creation waits groaning for the sons of God to be revealed.
Waits for the children of God to rescue them from the futility and decay hard wired in this creation.
That perfection is our likeness to God.
That perfection enables us to unite more intimately with God.
To share His divine nature with us.
This state of being is not their end in God.
That doesn't mean that the other animals aren't present in their own perfections.
I think it possible that as we are in God the other animals are in us.
Creation waits groaning for the sons of God to be revealed.
Waits for the children of God to rescue them from the futility and decay hard wired in this creation.