Are the pagan deities 'real'?
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J
jaybird88
Guest
but its not a god, its a piece of marble.
the Egyptians built the pyramids, calculated the circumference and volume of the planet , put their greatest and brightest minds into the priesthood to study the heavens, so intelligent, so sophisticated, but they didnt know the difference between a piece of marble and a god? not sure about that one.
not sure you understand the difference between an idol and a god.
Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
is this passage the Almighty proclaiming Himself greater than non existent beings?
and another passage:
Jeremiah 51:44
And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and take out of his mouth what he has swallowed. The nations shall no longer flow to him; the wall of Babylon has fallen.
Bel is a Babylonian god, do you think the Father is punishing a fictional character?
if i went out and proclaimed i was punishing a cartoon character from a coloring book, people would think i was mentally ill.
J
jaybird88
Guest
J
jaybird88
Guest
i have known many lovers of money in my life, i have yet to know any of them that have built an alter in the back yard, bow down to the alter, say prayers and believe that their prayers are being heard by a money god of the heavens.
J
jaybird88
Guest
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people.
You talk in circles. We went from the Hebrew Commandment to now was the greeks under the same guideline. Your example was to have no other god before Yahweh. And now you've completely flipped it around. If this is that important to you, take it and run with it. This just became way too stupid for my liking.
It is apparent you do not believe. This being the case, perhaps you should first consider reading the Bible in prayer and meditation.
This question would never arise with someone who believes the Bible. Ask Jesus to come into your heart, and He will guide you….
Remember though, God will not hear anyone if that person does not believe He exists.
On the existence of other gods, and where they come from, and what they are:
Isaiah 44:6-20
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.
12 The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.
13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?
Isaiah 44:6-20
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.
12 The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.
13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?
Matt 6:24 illustrates the money aspect. It’s not praying to money, it’s serving it. Building a bank account takes devoting time, effort and resources. Once you amass the wealth you need to tend it and protect it. The man who has nothing to lose is free to serve Him wholeheartedly. Paul said the same thing about taking a spouse. It’s not that money and companionship is evil. It just divides you and often becomes your primary concern.
Can someone that is not a Christian ever rely fully on Scripture to make a correct assessment of reality? Just as Jesus demonstrated who He was, people saw but rejected His teaching.
I dare say Satan and many Muslim scholars can repeat scripture better than most on this forum, but without faith (in God) it is worthless trivia to their souls. I say this not to discourage, but to emphasize that regeneration needs to proceed understanding.. I”ll illustrate the point with an excerpt from another’s words;
A man must be a Christian before he can open the Bible with any possibility of arriving at its meaning. It is spiritually discerned. Suppose I say to you that on the back of your hand there are scales like those of a fish, and you look at your white hand and laugh in scorn, and say that is nonsense. Suppose I take you out in yonder street and look up into the sky and say there are four moons revolving around the planet Jupiter, and you look up at that great white planet in the evening sky, and you say the man is crazy, it is no such thing. Suppose I take your razor and say it has a corrugated edge like a cross-cut saw, and you hold the razor up to the light, and you say it is not so. Put your hand under a microscope; it looks like the back of an alligator. Put the sharpest razor you ever saw under a miscroscopic lens; it looks like a circular saw. Put the telescope on Jupiter, and you see the four satellites in their appointed order. That former statement was foolishness to your natural eye, because it was miscroscopically discerned. That latter statement was foolishness to your natural eye, because it was telescopically discerned. The axioms of the Bible are foolishness to the natural mind because they are spiritually discerned. A man must be born of the Spirit before he knows what the Bible teaches.
I dare say Satan and many Muslim scholars can repeat scripture better than most on this forum, but without faith (in God) it is worthless trivia to their souls. I say this not to discourage, but to emphasize that regeneration needs to proceed understanding.. I”ll illustrate the point with an excerpt from another’s words;
A man must be a Christian before he can open the Bible with any possibility of arriving at its meaning. It is spiritually discerned. Suppose I say to you that on the back of your hand there are scales like those of a fish, and you look at your white hand and laugh in scorn, and say that is nonsense. Suppose I take you out in yonder street and look up into the sky and say there are four moons revolving around the planet Jupiter, and you look up at that great white planet in the evening sky, and you say the man is crazy, it is no such thing. Suppose I take your razor and say it has a corrugated edge like a cross-cut saw, and you hold the razor up to the light, and you say it is not so. Put your hand under a microscope; it looks like the back of an alligator. Put the sharpest razor you ever saw under a miscroscopic lens; it looks like a circular saw. Put the telescope on Jupiter, and you see the four satellites in their appointed order. That former statement was foolishness to your natural eye, because it was miscroscopically discerned. That latter statement was foolishness to your natural eye, because it was telescopically discerned. The axioms of the Bible are foolishness to the natural mind because they are spiritually discerned. A man must be born of the Spirit before he knows what the Bible teaches.
I don’t disagree with what you stated but there are other things at play. Faith precedes understanding anything. Look at the “flat earthers”. Because they actually believe the earth is flat their imagination creates these magnificent conceptual bridges that span the gaps over logic so they can continue to think they are right while everyone else has bought the lie. It’s how we deal with cognitive dissonance. Our brain fills in the blanks where information is missing. It’s how scientists can wholeheartedly think macro evolution is correct. Instead of seeing all of the puzzle pieces and creating a picture that is incomplete, they formulated what the picture needs to look like then with the pieces arranged that image. If a piece doesn’t fit they just throw it out along with any science that claims it’s part of the real puzzle. To claim the Bible is spiritually discerned isn’t false, but cognitive dissonance plays a big part. Once you have accepted it is truth, then your brain can start putting the puzzle together and fill in gaps and see how everything connects. This is the renewing of the mind. It is a large puzzle with many pieces. Many denominations take the pieces and make their own picture. I have found both reading to get the pieces and meditation to Spiritually connect with the One who helps sort them are both essential in seeing the big picture.
I understand and agree with what you say. We all fill in the blanks, whether those pieces of the puzzle are correct or not. I’m not really speaking of “absolute” understanding because I don’t think that is possible in our current form. I do however believe that the beginning of understanding the absolute truths that exist, begin at the foot of the cross. I think from that point of acceptance and faith in the finished works of Christ is what creates the starting point of what most term “sanctification.”
J
jaybird88
Guest
The point I was making is that the ones that love money don't think money is a god. When ancient Egyptians worshiped Horace they believed him to be a real being.
J
jaybird88
Guest
Then why did you bring the Greeks into the conversation? Did you have an answer or you just gonna reemain silent for a response?
If all this is "stupid" why not prove its stupid with facts rather than give a statement with no foundation.
Correct, the commandment given was don’t worship any other gods. Also don’t make an image and worship it. It doesn’t state, don’t aspire financial gain. Money is not a god as some claim. However, Christ made the point that you can’t serve two masters. Also where your treasure is, there your heart is. Money is a tool. Whether we build our investment portfolio or Christ’s Body will pay either temporal or eternal dividends.
Most never understand the cross much less sanctification. It’s really simple if churchy people didn’t complicate it.
But why make a point when you obviously know whether they understand that money is their god or not it factually is their god? You just want to argue. I don't have time for circle yanks and you seem to be the pivot man.
I did not actually bring the greeks themselves up but the idea of their deities and compared it to worshipping Satan. But you were so argumentative, I knew there was no way you understood. And now you are asking about it. I don't waste my time with those who think they know when I can see they don't have a clue and just yapping out of their butt!