Not By Works

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Lightskin said:
You’re placing the emphasis of your salvation upon yourself rather than Jesus.
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Believing in Christ is not putting the emphasis on myself for salvation.
Neither is continuing in that very same believing.

"to the one who does not work, but believes" - Romans 4:5

Believing is the very opposite of working to be saved, but I'm being told believing is working to be saved.
 
Finepearl said:
My previous post make it clear I accept none can earn salvation by works. The scriptures are clear on the importance of works. Faith without works is dead - not my words see [James 2:26]
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"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree). James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
 
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Finepearl said:
I believe Jesus is clearly saying at Matthew 7:21-23 that there will be many who profess faith in him and even claim to have done powerful works in his name that will be rejected by him. Jesus also states the reason why their professed faith and their claimed powerful works were not acceptable. Verse 21 They were not doing the will of Jesus Father in Heaven although they mistakenly and obviously think they are.
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John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Did these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 truly believe in the Son or did they trust in their works for salvation? Which is the will of the Father? Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved.
 
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Judges1318 said:
Believing in Christ is not putting the emphasis on myself for salvation.
Neither is continuing in that very same believing.

"to the one who does not work, but believes" - Romans 4:5

Believing is the very opposite of working to be saved, but I'm being told believing is working to be saved.
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The problem is this - I keep myself secure.
 
Bbrdrd said:
I see no such distinction in the text, faith is simply faith. Take James as an example, he uses the exact same faith that Paul uses in Romans to demonstrate that it is faith by works that justifies. That is, the faith of Abraham in God's ability to deliver the seed. And James states that it is this faith that justifies. So it seems to me James is explaining what saving faith is.
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In James 2:21, notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say, "Abraham believed God and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.
 
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Bbrdrd said:
Faith without works is not faith at all, so to say we are saved by faith we must also include the works that faith is perfected in. There is no separating the two, no such thing as faith without works.
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Faith is root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. So works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation. All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful.
 
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G2RBeliever said:
Jude

the servant of Jesus Christ.

25: To the only wise God our SAVIOUR,be glory and majesty,DOMINION,and power,both now and forever. Amen
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Believers are servants of obedience unto righteousness and unbelievers are servants of sin unto death. (Romans 6:16)

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
 
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Judges1318 said:
Prove to me 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 doesn't mean a saved person.
I showed you from context that it does.
I can't in good conscience deny the plain description of the sanctified person given in Hebrews 10.
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I already proved to you that 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 doesn't mean a saved person back in post #19 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/that-hebrews-10v26-thread.189675/#post-4132251 and in post #318 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/apostasy-101.189485/page-16 but you have your agenda and just don't have ears to hear. :(
 
Finepearl said:
I living faith saves. A living faith incudes works in demonstration of that faith. Faith without works is dead.
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Are you saying that a person (upon initially placing their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation) remain lost UNTIL later, AFTER they produce works and are saved by BOTH faith AND works? A living faith results in producing works, yet we are still saved through faith and not by works.
 
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Judges1318 said:
For these reasons:

"They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

"When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21, Mark 4:17.
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This is because their belief was never firmly rooted and established from the start. Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving belief. See post #133,857 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-6693
 
Lightskin said:
I reiterate my question, does faith alone save?
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Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE saves (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that merely claims to be genuine, but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead. (James 2:14-26) (y)
 
Finepearl said:
I living faith saves. A living faith incudes works in demonstration of that faith. Faith without works is dead.
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Does living faith save BEFORE a work is done? Or does a work have to be done before a faith is deemed living?
 
mailmandan said:
Faith is root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. So works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation. All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful.
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Amen, God grafts us in a tree in faith, But the tree waters the branch to produce fruit.
 
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Micaiah-imla said:
OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at. He that has ears to hear, let him hear!
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Are you condemning all OSAS believers? :unsure: When pressed by OSAS believers, it usually doesn't take long before those in the NOSAS camp resort to wrongly judging and even condemning OSAS believers, as demonstrated below. :(

lightbearer said: OSAS is a doctrine of satan. And all who follow and teach it are of Satan and His legion.

There are many OSAS’ers here. And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God. No suffering in the flesh is required, no righteous living, no cessation from sin.
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Do you prefer a much harder path to God? Is that what bothers you? Salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) sounds too easy? It also sounds like you are flirting with type 2 works salvation. It's no wonder my red flag remains up when dealing with those in the NOSAS camp. :cautious:
 
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