Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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The problem with James is much of the contextual questions you asked are unknown outside of guesses, unlike Romans. We can infer the issues James is writing but I hardly see how context would change the plain meaning of things like "faith without works is dead" and "faith is perfected with works" to mean the exact opposite of such things or to not be speaking of saving faith. If there are contextual issues, raise them.
The Bible clearly speaks of us being slaves of Christ/righteousness not simply sons. Romans 6 is part of the overall context of discussion preceding the declaration that Christ is Lord and feeds into how it is read. It's not an empty clause. You are not merely declaring Him Lord over creation but your own personal lord, and you His servant.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,
The Lord knoweth them that are His.
And,
Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the Master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.
(2 Timothy 2:19-21)
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(2 Timothy 2:19-21)
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True, but He also told a parable where the character who very likely represents Himself says "and these enemies of mine who would not have me rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me."
In Romans itself when it speaks of being sons it speaks of being led by the Spirit, which again requires obedience.
We are ruled by someone, we will have works of someone, and if we refuse to do the works of faith then we will be working faithless acts. There is no separation between faith and works, they are perfected together.
In Romans itself when it speaks of being sons it speaks of being led by the Spirit, which again requires obedience.
We are ruled by someone, we will have works of someone, and if we refuse to do the works of faith then we will be working faithless acts. There is no separation between faith and works, they are perfected together.
If you aren't ruled by God, you're ruled by sin. Christ's sacrifice was to break the bonds of sin that held us. I agree the works of faith are not "requirements for maintaining good stature" but if you think that's what I'm saying you're not paying attention. Faith without works is not faith at all, so to say we are saved by faith we must also include the works that faith is perfected in. There is no separating the two, no such thing as faith without works.
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EVERY BIT OF YOUR POST that I printed in RED is a FALSE OPINION OF WHAT GENUINE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED actually mean by that HANDLE, OSAS. YOU DID NOT GET A SINGLE THING THAT TRUE BORN AGAIN OSAS Christian actually BELIEVE, and it is 180 Degrees the opposite of our BELIEFS.
You let others taint your opinion of OSAS.
You maybe on Path that leads to DESTRUCTION. I can not TELL, YET. But I obviously came threw the NARROW GATE, and so did MOST OF THE OTHERS on this thread, AND OUR SALVATION was SECURE before we ever willingly, out of AGAPE LOVE, did our first DEED. You apparently Struggle to do what you think is considered RIGHTEOUSNESS, and if so, YOU ARE WRONG, and it is just FILTHY RAGS you have been piling up, {you do not want to even know what kind of rags those are}.
Here is where you went WRONG, if you do it for the RIGHT MOTIVE, (AGAPE LOVE), then there is Peace that Surpasses all of your Understanding, Contentment in ADVERSE CIRCUMSTANCES, JOY even in the hard times, AND an ACT OF AGAPE LOVE AS A LIFESTYLE, brings PLEASURE to YOU, because just to be SERVING HIM brings joy and pleasure.
It maybe OVER YOUR HEAD, that we do not HAVE TO SERVE HIM, BUT TRULY WANT TO BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM, ALSO, there would be extreme Joy just to be serving HIM, after HE instantly Saved US PERMANENTLY, the very MOMENT HE GAVE US SAVING FAITH. It is ALL something we WANT TO DO, because it Pleases HIM and US.
For you, it might be, Serving what you think is serving the LORD, BUT IT IS A CHORE.
For OSAS Believers, it is a JOY and PEACE with GOD, and a longing EXPECTATION TO HEAR THE SHOUT, "BEHOLD THE BRIDEGROOM COMES!"
You should choose your words more carefully in the future; because you give us the impression, that you are a spin off of works righteousness False Doctrine. BUT you NEED TO UNDERSTAND Salvation is PERMANENT, and it happens in the moment SAVING FAITH CAME IN, and you WILL NOT chose to reject HIM, because HE AUTOMATICALLY CHANGED YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT THE MOMENT HE (the HOLY SPIRIT) came INTO YOUR HEART. A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN IS A PERMANENT CHANGE IN YOUR HEART (the Human Spirit), to Eternal Life. Yes, there are lots of disciples that are not Born Again. But only BORN AGAIN Christians are TRUE BELIEVERS that are going to HEAVEN when HE CALLS the BRIDE OUT.
1 Thessalonians 1:5 (NASB)
5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.
Less than FULL CONVICTION, is not BORN AGAIN. Those are the ones, IF YOU THINK they are SAVED, when they are NOT, then you erroneously think they lost their salvation. They are just those that FOLLOW HIM for a little while, like a rock star FAN; and then they are GONE. THEY WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN AND NEVER TRULY SAVED. They are the people on the BROAD ROAD THAT CAME THROUGH THE WIDE GATE, but they NEVER WERE A REAL Born Again CHRISTIAN.
When YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW YOU ARE SAVED; this verse will firm up that belief:
Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.
YES we KNOW Phonies are in our churches, BUT WE WANT THEM THERE. BECAUSE FAITH COMES BY HEARING. So DO NOT LOOK at a FEW of the non-Born Again, you take their misunderstanding, that fit what you want to believe OSAS, and proceed to LABEL the Truly Born Again, as believing that same FALSE THEORY. Have the courtesy to ASK what we REALLY Believe from one of us TRULY Born Again Believers what I or another {and there are SEVERAL ON THIS THREAD, like YOU said,} INSTEAD Labeling THOSE WHO ARE REALLY BORN AGAIN, as THE EXACT SAME same believes as what the Phonies want to believe. ASK US WHAT WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE, and we will tell you, and THEN stop telling the FALSE STATEMENTS that only People who do not know better, who only assume OSAS, means what YOU ASSUME IT MEAN, in your post above in the RED INK, A TOTALLY FALSE STATEMENT. HERE are those who fall away, and NOTICE, they are NOT PART OF THE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CHURCH that TRULY BELIEVES the REAL OSAS DOCTRINE, and those Phonies, NEVER HAVE BEEN.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
Don't you realize that JESUS talks to both the non-Born Again Follower, and the TRULY BORN AGAIN BELIEVER ? WHY? HE WANTS THEM TO CHOOSE HIM, for the RIGHT MOTIVE.
Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.{Don't you GET IT, SALVATION is totally through Him, never has it been through us.}
You see, you landed on a THREAD that has a LOT of the REAL OSAS Genuine BELIEVERS, and most of us here are QUITE CAPABLE OF DEFENDING OUR BELIEFS WITH Multiple VERSES OF SCRIPTURE.
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