Is it just me or do the working lawyers come across as boasty? 
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Your projections are as incorrect as your heresies. If you were a true prophet you'd be praying with a sincere heart for all us sinners. See how that works?
It seems to me this is a lot of what the disconnect in this thread is. At what point is faith saving faith? What separates saving faith from faith that does not save?
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EleventhHour
Guest
I think it is answered right here.
Romans 4:4-5
4 Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.…
Saving faith, accepting Christ, can only be done when one ceases from work.
heb 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
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9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
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23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST
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24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
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26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
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If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6
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27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
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We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus
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39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
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Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Bump for @Judges1318
also you claimed someone in this chat called saving faith a work
who made that claim?
So when James says faith is perfected in works, that's not saving faith? Then why were the men of thessalonica rebuked for not working if Paul meant to say ceasing from work is the definition of faith? Why were they not commended for their faith?
I'm still confused with that "faithing" faith guy - where'd he go?
"Here we go a-faithaling
Among the leaves so green"
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EleventhHour
Guest
He left, asked for his account to be terminated. That is what he told us here on this thread.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Saving faith >>> initial faith
Faith that follows salvation >>> the walk of faith.
The context will tell you which is being discussed.
I see no such distinction in the text, faith is simply faith. Take James as an example, he uses the exact same faith that Paul uses in Romans to demonstrate that it is faith by works that justifies. That is, the faith of Abraham in God's ability to deliver the seed. And James states that it is this faith that justifies. So it seems to me James is explaining what saving faith is.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
He said he never knew them
that explains it all
Phil 2 is Paul saying we should work out our salvation not working to be saved
and Heb 6 is the author saying if we could ever fall away we could never be renewed, and thinking it puts Christ to shame
so sorry, neither support nosas
Placing your faith in Jesus Christ alone is saving faith. Adding anything to Jesus Christ is a faith that does not save.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes, tis true faith is faith, yet there is the initial faith that saves
See James 2:23
His act of faith was credited to him as righteousness and it also justified/ gave evidence before men.
This is the faith James is addressing.
And that is distinguished how? How is it known you've put your faith in Jesus Christ?
Can't help but read James 2:22 before getting to 2:23 which says faith is perfected/completed in works. It's not faith if there are no works demonstrating it.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Faith in scripture can also mean ... '"the faith" is in the body of beliefs.
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EleventhHour
Guest
What is James overall point, who is his audience, what is he trying to get them to understand... need to start there.