Not By Works

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EleventhHour said:
They were professing faith?
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Those referenced in Matthew 7:21-23 are clearly ones professing faith in Jesus. Verse 22 They are ones who also profess to do powerful works in Jesus name. Verse 23 Jesus clearly shows a professed faith if not supported by works in accord with his Fathers will would not qualify one for entry into the Kingdom of the Heavens.
 
Finepearl said:
I agree with your comments almost entirely with exception: I do think James focus is on works in demonstration of faith. He even cites Abraham and Rahab as examples of works of faith. I also believe the scriptures, not me, are saying works are required in demonstration of our faith. I believe your comments say the same thing.
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What about Romans 4 then,

that say works have no bearing on our faith or our salvation ?

and also, James said faith plus no works

how many works then would it take to prove faith?
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Um no This would be your first mistake.If they had true faith they would have been created anew, and their faith would have produced. You do not say you trust someone yet not do anything they ask. If so. Your really had no faiht at all. Your just playing games



1. Why did you skip vs 22? Those who come to Jesus and lay their works at his feet, as if God should take these works and use them for something?
2. What did he say in vs 23? they practiced lawlessness, Not righteousness
3. He also said He never knew them, and told them to depart from him

You see. NOSAS people want to use this passage to say it destroys OSAS. When n fact it destroys NOSAS.

1. You can not use this to claim people had living faith, Because it proves these people NEVER had living faith (they practiced sin not righteousness)
2. You can not use this to prove they were saved then lost it. Because Jesus tells us, HE NEVER KNEW THEM, if they were saved at one time, then lost it (NOSAS) then Jesus lied. because at one time, Jesus had a relationship with them as their father, and they his children, And he would have KNOWN them Saying he NEVER knew them proves they were never his children
3. We can also look to Johns epistle. When john said whoever sins has never seen God. So we see John tells us these people who practice sin has never seen or known God just as Jesus said he never knew them
4. In the same epistle (chapter 3 of the 1st letter) John also says whoever has been born of God can not practice sin, so we see with certainty these people were never born of God, because they practice sin.
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I believe Jesus is clearly saying at Matthew 7:21-23 that there will be many who profess faith in him and even claim to have done powerful works in his name that will be rejected by him. Jesus also states the reason why their professed faith and their claimed powerful works were not acceptable. Verse 21 They were not doing the will of Jesus Father in Heaven although they mistakenly and obviously think they are.

Regarding OSAS - Would you say the Apostle Paul was saved and guaranteed entry into the Kingdom? Read his words at Phillipians 2:12 also his words at Hebrews 6:4-6
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes it’s is by christ

so how does that cause their forgiveness if they claim Christ on,y died for past sin?
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It would be a misunderstanding to say Christ died for only past sins. One needs to believe on Jesus and receive him to be saved. I believe misunderstanding/misinterpretation can and does happen still.

Perhaps oftentimes when speaking of past sins one means sins committed before becoming Christian. Though literally speaking, all the sins we commit are future tense from the cross.

At the same time, God knows everything that will happen from the very beginning as if it already occurred.
 
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Do good O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts. As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity (Psalm 125:4-5).

Now, keeping this in mind:

But and if that SERVANT...shall begin to beat the men servants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and be drunken; the lord of that SERVANT will...cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion WITH THE UNBELIVERS (Luke 12:45-46).

There are many OSAS’ers here. And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God. No suffering in the flesh is required, no righteous living, no cessation from sin.

It’s like a man committing a crime, and the police pursue him. But once the police get close to him, and see his righteous apparel, they say, He’s okay, he’s clothed in righteousness. Then apologize to the criminal for not seeing his holy clothing.

OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear!
 
eternally-gratefull said:
What about Romans 4 then,

that say works have no bearing on our faith or our salvation ?

and also, James said faith plus no works

how many works then would it take to prove faith?
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I believe things like prayer, bible reading, looking for Jesus' return and desiring his return, desiring to do God's will may indicate faith.

Usually with prayer and bible reading I would think one would do that if they have faith or perhaps are seeking , though there can be other reasons as well.
 
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N
eternally-gratefull said:
What about Romans 4 then,

that say works have no bearing on our faith or our salvation ?

and also, James said faith plus no works

how many works then would it take to prove faith?
Click to expand...
It is accepted that no amount of works can earn us salvation. A living and true faith will naturally produce works in demonstration of that faith. Saying we have faith in Jesus and not demonstrating that faith by following in his footsteps and being obedient to his commands would belie that claim. Both Abraham and Rahab showed they had a living faith by their actions. God wants us to have a living faith
 
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Micaiah-imla said:
Do good O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts. As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity (Psalm 125:4-5).

Now, keeping this in mind:

But and if that SERVANT...shall begin to beat the men servants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and be drunken; the lord of that SERVANT will...cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion WITH THE UNBELIVERS (Luke 12:45-46).

There are many OSAS’ers here. And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God. No suffering in the flesh is required, no righteous living, no cessation from sin.

It’s like a man committing a crime, and the police pursue him. But once the police get close to him, and see his righteous apparel, they say, He’s okay, he’s clothed in righteousness. Then apologize to the criminal for not seeing his holy clothing.

OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear!
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Totally out of context. All you are doing is throwing stuff at the wall hoping it will stick.
 
Micaiah-imla said:
Do good O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts. As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity (Psalm 125:4-5).

Now, keeping this in mind:

But and if that SERVANT...shall begin to beat the men servants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and be drunken; the lord of that SERVANT will...cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion WITH THE UNBELIVERS (Luke 12:45-46).

There are many OSAS’ers here. And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God. No suffering in the flesh is required, no righteous living, no cessation from sin.

It’s like a man committing a crime, and the police pursue him. But once the police get close to him, and see his righteous apparel, they say, He’s okay, he’s clothed in righteousness. Then apologize to the criminal for not seeing his holy clothing.

OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear!
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I read >>>>>> I have works to prove my worth, I am righteous to prove my worth, I am carrying my cross to prove my worth, I suffer daily to prove my worth, I do not sin to prove my worth.

Translation >>>>> Jesus was not the worthy lamb of God, I can do better than Jesus.
 
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Lightskin said:
I reiterate my question, does faith alone save?
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Still searching for the faith without works unicorn.

It’s called wishful thinking or mental ascent.

In Him we live and move and have our being. We follow Him. As He said, “Those who have done good will rise to live. Those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.”

Thank God for a new life in Him. A new nature, a new life. In all of our ways we acknowledge Him and obey His voice. He is King.
 
Finepearl said:
Those referenced in Matthew 7:21-23 are clearly ones professing faith in Jesus. Verse 22 They are ones who also profess to do powerful works in Jesus name. Verse 23 Jesus clearly shows a professed faith if not supported by works in accord with his Fathers will would not qualify one for entry into the Kingdom of the Heavens.
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Let's go with the reality.. ....

They never had saving faith and Jesus did not know them ever.
 
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CherieR said:
It would be a misunderstanding to say Christ died for only past sins. One needs to believe on Jesus and receive him to be saved. I believe misunderstanding/misinterpretation can and does happen still.

Perhaps oftentimes when speaking of past sins one means sins committed before becoming Christian. Though literally speaking, all the sins we commit are future tense from the cross.

At the same time, God knows everything that will happen from the very beginning as if it already occurred.
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The thing is, when Jesus died, the people that have sinned today were not even born yet, so those would not be past sins but future sins. Jesus died for all sin, past, present, and future.
 
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OneOfHis said:
We (Gods children) are sanctified positionally through the blood of Christ covering us.

We (Gods children) are sanctified daily through His works in us.
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Yep.
It's clear that Hebrews chapter 10 is talking about saved, sanctified believers.

Hebrews 10 is the clear compelling and plain truth about non-osas by which all other scripture must be measured against.
Compelling evidence is never dismissed in favor of less compelling evidence, but that is exactly what osas does in order to defend itself.
Famous theologians are mere men too, and they are just as subject to the deceits of the flesh, like pride, and greed just like the rest of us.
Don't believe a theologian just because he has set himself up as a paid, professional theologian.
Be a Berean, read the Bible for yourself. ALL of it.
 
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