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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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EleventhHour
Guest
We only believe that which we have been persuaded is true.
No matter how hard you try, you will not believe something unless you have been persuaded first.
I guess that is my point.
Someone can tell you often and frequently that you are attractive but unless you are persuaded you will not believe it.
This is not an act of one's will ... being persuaded much deeper
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38 -39
Hi Cherie.
Jesus is the sinless Son of God and is seated at the Father's right hand this morning, making intercession for the saints (holy ones; those set apart to God.) Jesus was born of a virgin.
What do I believe about salvation? We must be born of water and the Spirit. As it is written, we must repent and be baptized for the freedom (aphesis in the Greek) from sins. Israel was forgiven by the blood of bulls and goats (see Lev. 4:20,26,31,35; 5:10,13,16,18; 6:7). One of the great sins of the Christian religion was devaluing the blood of Jesus. He came to set the captives free and proclaimed Himself that everyone who sins is a slave of sin. We get what we get by faith and if people do not believe in why His blood was really shed, they do not receive. The Scriptures state again and again that we have to be righteous and cannot be wicked, and we can only be truly righteous by faith.
But faith is more than humanity understands. To believe in Jesus is to cleave to Him in an intimate relationship here and now. But He is at the Father's right hand. The connection we have to Him is available through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus came to baptize us with the Holy Spirit, according to the Word of God. Romans 8 states that the sons of God are those being led by the Spirit of God: Psalm 23 is not as flippant as people make it. "My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me" just as He followed the Father. He is the pattern Son and this is the Kingdom of God - when He reigns over each of our lives.
Jesus is spoken of as Savior about 26 times in the Bible, but He is spoken of as Lord 300 times. There we have God's perspective on the matter. Our bodies are living sacrifices. What are we to eat? What He says. That's just one example. There's lots of fat Christians but I've never seen a fat disciple of Jesus Christ, which is what He commanded us to go in to all the world and make.
As for perfection? Again, don't get bogged down in fallen, human, religious thinking. The only thing that matters is God's Word and we are to have the mind of Christ, who is the Word of God. Jesus commanded us to be perfect and Hebrews exhorts us to go on to perfection. All that matters is what God says and He has said that Christ suffered for us that we would follow in His steps: who committed no sin. See what faith can do? Can you believe what God says instead of fallen people? Take an honest, non-religious look at 1 John 3:4-11, it means just what it sounds like it does. My children can understand that but I haven't found adults who can believe it.
The final 2 verses of Proverbs 2 state: "For the upright will dwell in the land (earth) and the perfect will remain in it, but the wicked will be cut off from the earth and the transgressors will be rooted out of it."
Are you going to believe what God says or what humans think? You won't be able to go with the religious herd if you want to go with what God says.
You have to know the whole of God's Word and meditate in it. People can pull a verse here and there and attempt to construct doctrines with it, but the 66 books have a constant flow. True grace changes people in to the likeness of Christ. Sin is the doctrine of the Devil and almost everyone believes in it. Satan's lie is that we can go on in sin, yet we are still righteous: we will continue to rebel against God and yet be enthroned with Him. That isn't holiness or faith and holiness is not an option.
Faith is an act. We show what we believe by what we do today.
In the spiritual we must go through what Israel did in the natural. The Lamb must get us out of Egypt and from under Pharaoh. There is to be no leaven (sin) in our country (among the people of God) is what our Passover (Christ) states. Cut off your hand if it causes you to sin, He said! "In Him you were also circumcised, in the removal of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him through our faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead." Col. 2:11,12
Blessed are the pure in heart, for only they will see God.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Here we see the problem.
Translation: Faith is a work
I am saved by my works.
Being born of water and the Spirit is not water baptism. That certainly is a problem. Defining faith as a work and teaching saved by works is certainly a problem as well.
You're a Christian but not a disciple of Jesus Christ. If you were a disciple of His, you would be able to hear what He is saying. And we would be one.
You a fine example of why the world does not believe.
Translation:
The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector
Wrong. This issue is King Jesus, do you do His will or yours, and according to His definition, are you still a slave.
Get a clue.
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EleventhHour
Guest
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes, the wide gate and broad path of works appeals to our human nature, that is why Jesus tells us the gate is narrow and few find it, faith is the cessation of work.
That is not the issue where you and I disagreed in the past.
Where we disagree is that someone can be saved from a just punishment, by God Himself, then ultimately still face that same punishment.
I have - the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
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EleventhHour
Guest
I was a harlot a month or so ago... LordsHandMaiden told me so.
Then I knew my salvation was secure!
I was a harlot a month or so ago... LordsHandMaiden told me so.
Then I knew my salvation was secure!
I used to spend time in the pubs - good ale.
The will of our Heavenly Father is that we have faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus teaches us that whoever believes in Him is saved, not whoever works is saved.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
but if we have been persuaded its true, Do we not use our will to follow that which we have been persuaded? or to decide that while yes I am persuaded, It will effect what I desire over here, so I chose this desire over this other truth,
You’re placing the emphasis of your salvation upon yourself rather than Jesus. Calling it a works-based salvation or simply simply calling it a lack of faith in Jesus is actually semantics.
Let me ask you a question, and I know I can go straight to the source and ask God or people who have lost faith in Him but I’ll ask you; why do you think people lose faith?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Then what are you? Since it is obvious you do not hear what he is saying