Prophecy vs mystery: Since the world began

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Jan 12, 2019
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#41
That was the GOSPEL of THE SON of GOD...that was the story of salvation in,by and through THE MESSIAH, THE SAVIOR,who would save...and not in the way the Jews of old had assumed...

THE KINGDOM is another mystery altogether but comes by THE GOSPEL...and belief in THAT GOSPEL...itś a growing Kingdom and has no walls
So what mystery do you think Paul was talking about that was kept secret since the world began?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#42
For those people who believe that both Gospels contain the same message, wouldn't this be some kind of contradiction? How do people still see both messages as the same?
I'm not sure what you mean by "both Gospels". Anyhow Adam would be regarded as a prophet (since he did say some prophetic words), so he would be a prophet "since the world began".

As to the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, that was the mystery of the Church (Jews and Gentiles in one Body), which was also according to Paul's Gospel.

EPHESIANS 3
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospel:
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#43
I'm not sure what you mean by "both Gospels". Anyhow Adam would be regarded as a prophet (since he did say some prophetic words), so he would be a prophet "since the world began".

As to the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, that was the mystery of the Church (Jews and Gentiles in one Body), which was also according to Paul's Gospel.

EPHESIANS 3
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospel:
Yes, thru the fall of Israel, the Gentiles received mercy from God (Romans 11), and being fellow heirs and equal with the Jews in the Body of Christ.

This mystery was kept secret, meaning Peter could not have been preaching that in Acts 2 and 3. Would that be a fair conclusion?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#44
This mystery was kept secret, meaning Peter could not have been preaching that in Acts 2 and 3. Would that be a fair conclusion?
Peter was simply preaching the Gospel. But it is significant that it was to BOTH Jews and Gentiles. See Acts 10. Paul is the one who revealed the mystery of Jew and Gentile in one Body. So they were complementing each other.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#45
Peter was simply preaching the Gospel. But it is significant that it was to BOTH Jews and Gentiles. See Acts 10. Paul is the one who revealed the mystery of Jew and Gentile in one Body. So they were complementing each other.
Peter preached good news to the Jews in Acts 3, that is true.

My point to you was "If he preached something that was spoken since the world began, he cannot be preaching what Paul was talking about as "my gospel" in Romans, since Paul claimed it was a secret since the world began."

That is what reading Acts 3:21 and Romans 16:25 leads a reader to conclude, would you say that is correct?
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#46
The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?
God spoke with Moses but with everyone else He spoke in riddles. Some call this shadows and types, archetypes, paradigms, symbols and so on. Each letter in the Hebrew has symbolic meaning. In Genesis 3:5 the serpent is told what is going to happen. The seed of Eve is Jesus through David. Mary is a descendant of Eve. It was Mary that birthed the seed of Jesus into the world. This was all revealed from the beginning in the Garden of Eden.

Numbers 12:8
I speak with him face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD.

Genesis 3:5
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#47
The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?
Jesus added to what we receive from Moses. So there are things that were not known until Jesus was born into the world and began to preach and teach. When the Word became Flesh.

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him." (Deut 18:15)
 
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#48
The Holy Spirit is to be our Guide, Teacher, Comforter and so on. He was given to teach people what they need to know. So it was no longer required for people to teach each other. If we take our Priesthood serious then we can learn from the Holy Spirit.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7)

When God says: Let US make mankind. This is a reference to Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Three united together as one.

"Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness" (Genesis 1:26)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#49
Jesus added to what we receive from Moses. So there are things that were not known until Jesus was born into the world and began to preach and teach. When the Word became Flesh.

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him." (Deut 18:15)
So is this the secret that Paul was referring to?
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#50
So is this the secret that Paul was referring to?
They did not know. They did not understand that the Gentiles would be saved. Even Jesus referred to the Gentiles as dogs. "He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) There was no small dispute that they wanted the Gentiles to convert to become "Jewish".

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. (Matthew 23:15)
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#51
"After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!" Romans 11:24 Natural branches are not the same as branches that have been grafted into a tree.
 

Attachments

Jan 12, 2019
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#52
They did not know. They did not understand that the Gentiles would be saved. Even Jesus referred to the Gentiles as dogs. "He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) There was no small dispute that they wanted the Gentiles to convert to become "Jewish".

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. (Matthew 23:15)
They did not know. They did not understand that the Gentiles would be saved. Even Jesus referred to the Gentiles as dogs. "He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) There was no small dispute that they wanted the Gentiles to convert to become "Jewish".

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. (Matthew 23:15)
So is it safe to conclude that Peter, when he was preaching "the gospel" in Acts 2 and 3, was also unaware of this?
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#53
So is it safe to conclude that Peter, when he was preaching "the gospel" in Acts 2 and 3, was also unaware of this?
Everyone was aware of this. This was no small dispute in the Early Church.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#54
Think on this theme. Our Fathe reveals His secrets to whom He will. It seems to me when we seek, we do learn much more, but when we go to trying simply to "figure out" what the Bible is saying, we are headed for trouble.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#55
Everyone was aware of this. This was no small dispute in the Early Church.
So you mean Paul was joking in Romans 16:25 about his gospel being a secret, if everyone was aware of this?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#56
Think on this theme. Our Fathe reveals His secrets to whom He will. It seems to me when we seek, we do learn much more, but when we go to trying simply to "figure out" what the Bible is saying, we are headed for trouble.
So Peter in Acts 2 and 3 was not aware of the secrets that was revealed to Paul, would you agree with that?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#57
There is only one Way, Truth and Life, it is our Savior, Jesus-Yeshua and His Gospel only.

It is certain Peter was given personal information concrning himself by our Father just as are all who believe but as per the Gospel, just as Paul teaches, there is only ONE that of Jesus Christ.

Even I was given to know how my wWay would be over a half century ago, and nothing has been amiss. Do you know what the Father told me? Ithink not, but if you do, perhaps you could elaborated. It is certain I do not know what personal infor He has givne you, but that is your affair between you and our Father.
Some folks have gone so far as to teach that all should listen to Paul without giving heed to Jesus-Yeshua. This is not to be.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#58
There is only one Way, Truth and Life, it is our Savior, Jesus-Yeshua and His Gospel only.

It is certain Peter was given personal information concrning himself by our Father just as are all who believe but as per the Gospel, just as Paul teaches, there is only ONE that of Jesus Christ.

Even I was given to know how my wWay would be over a half century ago, and nothing has been amiss. Do you know what the Father told me? Ithink not, but if you do, perhaps you could elaborated. It is certain I do not know what personal infor He has givne you, but that is your affair between you and our Father.
Some folks have gone so far as to teach that all should listen to Paul without giving heed to Jesus-Yeshua. This is not to be.
Yes, it is always thru Jesus. No one is saying there is another person here.

But why does Paul said his gospel is a secret? What exactly did he have that Peter was not aware of in Acts 2 and 3?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#59
There is no secret gospel, not mine, not Paul's. Perhaps something has been losst in e transcribing over the centuries.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#60
There is no secret gospel, not mine, not Paul's. Perhaps something has been losst in e transcribing over the centuries.
I see, thanks for sharing your view.