This has been dealt with in post #56 on this page https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/closing-the-gap-in-dispensationalism.190094/page-3
Did Moses and Elijah rise from dead before Christ?
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"And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. " 2 Kings 2:11
Elijah is described as having never actually died. His body went to Heaven, fully intact.
You made the assertion "It did not change" in your post #21. You go back and figure it out; I'm not doing your homework for you.
The passage from verse 19 to verse 31 is considered by some readers to be a parable; such a view is not shared by all readers. The passage from verse 1 to verse 13 is definitely a parable, but that ends at verse 13. The two are separate stories, clearly separated by the narrative in verse 14. Dragging details from one into the other only makes for confusion.
No man can serve two teaching Masters. Necromancy like patron saint worship and its nemesis all things written in the law and the prophets. The two witness of God . A person will hate the one and love the other or vice versa .Like the Holy Spirit said to him in that parable that desired to seek after the dead. There is a division that nether can pass, He did not hear and believe the words of prophecy twice.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:Luke 16:26-27
1. Neither Luke nor Jesus said that it was not a parable.
2. Jesus always uses names with meaning to convey a thought in parables.
3.This literal account is consistent with the entire spiritual understanding hid in the parable. It has nothing to do with the doctrine of hell.
That doctrine has to do with the "living suffering:, the wage of sin we suffer in these bodies of death the wrath of God being revealed from heaven There is no breathing under ground .The subject mater is if men will not hear the gospel as prophecy then neither will the beleive even if the Son of man arose. Faith does not come by experiences a matter .Faith come before revealing the coming...
Having nothing to do with the doctrine of hell .Rather the doctrine of unbelief.
Chariots of refining fire and horses of fire God's tool of separation
A description using a body went to heaven . .it bears witness that Elijah was raised by the unseen power of God.. Elijah represent the law of faith . While Moses is forbade to be used as one that enter . He represent the letter of the law it kills .
But working together make the perfect law . The just and the justifier. When the graves were opened many bodies entered to show the ressurection gate is now open .Corrupted flesh and blood could never enter the new order .
Allegory is not the default of language. Everyone (Jesus included) means what they say unless they indicate that they don't.
You are the one who claimed it was a parable, the burden of proof is on you to justify that.
The people are never named in parables. Name one for me please
Who said anything about Hell?
The rich man who was rich in worldly possession it is the same rich man in the parable at the end of the chapter. Did you mean to say don't drag the unseen spirutl understanding from one parable to another. That would seem confusing .How could we ever come to the spiritual understanding of hearing God?
1 Corithians 2: 11-14 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jesus gives absolutely no indication that the rich man in the parable in verses 1 - 13 is the same rich man in the story beginning in verse 19. In the first passage, he is a minor character at best. In the second, he is the central character.
No, that's not what I meant.
No he wasn't saying that. But since you brought it up, I will say that there is a consistency throughout all the parables. The key to understanding them is understanding the first parable.
Scripture says Jesus rules from his throne in Jerusalem above, while he remains buried.
Its not default but is the signified .Parables are historically true as well as spiritually.
If it begins as a parable verse 1 it ends as one. . . verse 31
Name one ? Adam meaning "earth", Abraham meaning the "father of all the nations". Daniel "Jehovah is Judge" . Lazarus "God is help" The rich man, "no true riches". No Christ as Master.
The Parable a continuation that ends in chapter 16 begins with the rich man contrasted against the poor "God is help" No name for the rich man.
Luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
"The Parable of two teaching Masters"
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Even the Son of man Jesus when accused of being Good Master revealed that tittle is for walking by faith .God is not a man. Only our invisible God is Good. Good is not defined by what the eyes see. Jesus refused to be honored with the honor of His father who worked with the Son strengthening the both to finish the work of one.
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Jesus as the Son of man teaches us how to walk by faith he would never say he is the Good source of faith .
Another question. What was the name of the rich man if it it is not a parable or the name of the brothers ? What is the conclusion of the parable?
Why use the name Lazarus to represent the poor that have the true riches, the gospel ? Why not Thomas or Jude?
Proverbs 10:15 The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty.
Yes Israel (born of God) represents the first born. Our bloody husband, Christ . The first born of all the new creation Israel.
Even when scripture is provided you still insist. I pray that God will touch your mind and let you see how stubborn and wrong you are on so many topics. There is not one single scripture that proves the body of Elijah was not changed but there is scripture that proves that he could not go to heaven unless his body did change.
Yes you are correct in that the promise to go to heaven did not exist until Christ gave the promise. However the one thing I have learned about the word of God is that we must always keep an open mind about the word of God.
There is no scriptural proof that Moses went to heaven at any point and to this day is still languishing in the bosom of Abraham/Hades or in the words of Christ "Paradise". But the bible is clear that Elijah did in fact go to heaven in a Chariot of fire
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
The word "Heaven' in 2 Kings 2:11 is talking about "The Abode of God" Strong's #H8064. according to the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon.
'Then I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David, and he will feed them; he will feed them himself and be their shepherd.
“And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David will be prince among them; I the LORD have spoken.'
-Ezk 34:23-24
God is not a man .
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is
Was not changed to what? What are you hoping it was changed to?
No one has received their new bodies, our living hope..
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
No procreation in the new. No need.
Corruption does not put on the incorruptible like one changes clothing. What we will be as son of God is not known .One thing we do know is we do not know Christ after any corrupted rudiment of this world to include the corrupted dust and water that clothes us a bodies of death . That kind of hope would seem to apply to the philosophers as religious oral tradition of corrupted mankind.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
A new creation not a rebuilt or restored .
Elijah was brought up to heaven. The only prophet experience such.
Moses was dead, 6 foot under the ground
Moses the law giver represents death .The law will not enter the new order death and sufferings (hell) will never rise again to condemn through sufferings to death another creation
Elijah who represent the unseen power of God the "law of faith" (believing God) represents those who will rise on the last day. Together the two witnesses, law and prophets inform us God has spoke as the "just one" signified by Moses and the "justifier" signified by Elijah together making a perfect law that can create new creatures. Apart from each other the two witness have no power .
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
All of the prophets to include Abel the first mentioned other than Moses were set aside as those sent with the word of God as apostles to show the unseen power of God. John the Baptist came in that unseen power signified by Elijah
Sorry if I wasn't clear. What i meant by my previous comment is:
In the parables of Jesus, He will identify people with titles, but He doesn't name them (give them names).