Not By Works
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yes, rightly so
because if one does not accept that the believer will be saved, one either challenges God's faithfulness & ability to save, or one points to a failure on the part of those He called out to redeem. if the saved cause their own loss of salvation, then that salvation is contingent on the saved, not on God, and if it is contingent on the saint, then it is no longer a free gift, by grace, but it is on the basis of merit being either found of not found in the one who believes. if by merit, as a reward, then grace is no longer grace - instead it is a wage, and wages are given to those who labor.
but Elisha would not accept any payment from Naaman. salvation cannot be bought.
Gehazi the servant of Elisha deceitfully sought and took wages for this healing -- and the leprosy was imputed to him with it.
because if one does not accept that the believer will be saved, one either challenges God's faithfulness & ability to save, or one points to a failure on the part of those He called out to redeem. if the saved cause their own loss of salvation, then that salvation is contingent on the saved, not on God, and if it is contingent on the saint, then it is no longer a free gift, by grace, but it is on the basis of merit being either found of not found in the one who believes. if by merit, as a reward, then grace is no longer grace - instead it is a wage, and wages are given to those who labor.
but Elisha would not accept any payment from Naaman. salvation cannot be bought.
Gehazi the servant of Elisha deceitfully sought and took wages for this healing -- and the leprosy was imputed to him with it.
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E
This explanation really signifies and reveals your mindset..... salvation to you is a revolving door and something entered into by
so nebulous "commitment" not saving faith... this is why in your dogma "keep believing" is so important to you .. keeping your end of the deal...that is not the Gospel!!!
If you understood "salvation" you would understand that there is no "leaving" salvation.
As I told you before many times.. God's response to those who put their faith in Christ Jesus for "salvation" completely is an irrevocable, eternal product/result.... saved!
Jesus only gives eternal, secure salvation...... at one moment in time (born from above).... if you think otherwise then you have not trusted Him yet.
so nebulous "commitment" not saving faith... this is why in your dogma "keep believing" is so important to you .. keeping your end of the deal...that is not the Gospel!!!
If you understood "salvation" you would understand that there is no "leaving" salvation.
As I told you before many times.. God's response to those who put their faith in Christ Jesus for "salvation" completely is an irrevocable, eternal product/result.... saved!
Jesus only gives eternal, secure salvation...... at one moment in time (born from above).... if you think otherwise then you have not trusted Him yet.
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A believer's walk with Jesus is not going to be perfect.
Paul states in Phillipians 3:7-9( NKJV ):
"But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness , which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;"
Jesus died on the cross and rose again that we may know him and be saved. Jesus sacrifice on the cross was enough to fully pay for our sins. We cannot add our works to that sacrifice. One may in gratitude serve the Lord. Nobody can ever pay back the Lord Jesus for giving up his life on the cross nor can anyone earn salvation.
Paul states in Phillipians 3:7-9( NKJV ):
"But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness , which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;"
Jesus died on the cross and rose again that we may know him and be saved. Jesus sacrifice on the cross was enough to fully pay for our sins. We cannot add our works to that sacrifice. One may in gratitude serve the Lord. Nobody can ever pay back the Lord Jesus for giving up his life on the cross nor can anyone earn salvation.
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That's what we sweetly told the Sunday school children but its partly true, which is false. It is written, it is written, it is written that He appeared to destroy the works of the Devil (sin) - to set us free from his and its control - and to baptize us with His Holy Spirit. The point is for Him to become our King and for us to truly lay down our lives (souls) and no longer do our will but His.
When His Kingdom comes, His will is being done.
When His Kingdom comes, His will is being done.
Nice try, Whiteskin.
"It is written that He appeared to destroy the works of the Devil (sin) - to set us free from his and its control - and to baptize us with His Holy Spirit. The point is for Him to become our King and for us to truly lay down our lives (souls) and no longer do our will but His.
When His Kingdom comes, His will is being done."
"I've said it explicitly many times before on this thread and The Way, Which Gospel and My Conversion."
Just b/c your ears (and heart) are uncircumcised too, it ain't my fault. Death and resurrection. It isn't complicated. Which king's will do you do?
"It is written that He appeared to destroy the works of the Devil (sin) - to set us free from his and its control - and to baptize us with His Holy Spirit. The point is for Him to become our King and for us to truly lay down our lives (souls) and no longer do our will but His.
When His Kingdom comes, His will is being done."
"I've said it explicitly many times before on this thread and The Way, Which Gospel and My Conversion."
Just b/c your ears (and heart) are uncircumcised too, it ain't my fault. Death and resurrection. It isn't complicated. Which king's will do you do?
If God draws someone and they come to him, will he let them go?
You and others think so.
If so why do you so?
Seems a bit harsh if he does. Seems like mind games and a bit schizophrenic.
It's a bit like this.
"Hi BillG, I'm calling you to believe in Jesus and believe in and on him will you do that?
"Yes God I will, thank you so much for saving me, thank you Jesus for dying for me. I confess with my mouth and believe you rose from the dead so I could be reconciled to the Father through faith"
Yet in the background and unbeknownst to us we find in the background God saying
"Hey son, let's call BillG to salvation, he will accept it, but we know he will throw it back in our face and reject you, good game though"
If that's the case then it makes a mockery of
Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
If God calls someone to salvation and genuine faith knowing they will throw it back is very cruel indeed.
If he knows who will be saved from the beginning of time why would he do that?
You and others think so.
If so why do you so?
Seems a bit harsh if he does. Seems like mind games and a bit schizophrenic.
It's a bit like this.
"Hi BillG, I'm calling you to believe in Jesus and believe in and on him will you do that?
"Yes God I will, thank you so much for saving me, thank you Jesus for dying for me. I confess with my mouth and believe you rose from the dead so I could be reconciled to the Father through faith"
Yet in the background and unbeknownst to us we find in the background God saying
"Hey son, let's call BillG to salvation, he will accept it, but we know he will throw it back in our face and reject you, good game though"
If that's the case then it makes a mockery of
Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
If God calls someone to salvation and genuine faith knowing they will throw it back is very cruel indeed.
If he knows who will be saved from the beginning of time why would he do that?
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In my last sentence I cited James 2:14,26. I don't believe there is any contradiction in scripture. James was highlighting anyone with genuine faith will have works to go with it. By way of example even Satan and the demons have faith in God. Are they guaranteed salvation based on their faith? Far from it for they work in opposition to God. So surely works do count?
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