Not By Works

[walknlight]

More contradiction.

Sheep get lost and The Good Shepherd (who is not incompetent like you preach ) goes and finds them.
No one gets so lost they cannot be found with a Shepherd who knows and cares for His sheep.

Even in a real life scenario this makes no sense.
No shepherd lets sheep just leave the pen.

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luke 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luke 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

 

[EleventhHour]

if he lose one of them,

Exactly, sheep wander off, I have seen with my own two eyes, however, this never the desire of the shepherd herder.

 

[posthuman]

When you hear the word, you choose how effective that word will be in you.

oh? interesting! where does scripture say that?
Proverbs 20:12? Mark 4:11-12? Matthew 13:14?

 

[Judges1318]

That's humanism, not Christianity. Osteen would be proud!

That's funny.
I'm not talking about the potential for worldly prosperity, lol.
I'm talking about the potential of the soil to retain and grow the Word of God in fruitfulness described in the Parable of the Sower.
Some soil has that potential, some doesn't.
God will reveal what kind of soil you have.
You'll either respond to his grace, or you won't.

 

[Judges1318]

Exactly, sheep wander off, I have seen with my own two eyes, however, this never the desire of the shepherd herder.

Why is God so awesome to keep his sheep saved no matter what, but can't keep his sheep from wandering off?

 

[EleventhHour]

Why is God so awesome to keep you saved no matter what, but can't keep his sheep from wandering off?

Sigh

 

[azamzimtoti]

The potential of the soil, however, is an element of salvation that belongs to the soil itself.

This is just total bafflegab - you should have stopped long ago.

Ecc 6:11 (NIV) The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?

 

[preacher4truth]

That's funny.
I'm not talking about the potential for worldly prosperity...

Exactly, your error is even more grave than that of preaching worldly prosperity as it instead delves into preaching the potential for spiritual prosperity (eternal life and salvation) via the human will. Your gospel is humanism, not Christianity. It reeks of the voice in the garden that said "You shall become as gods..."

 

[Micaiah-imla]

God prepares the soil, not the human. Man's salvation isn't due to choice, that is a false gospel.

Hi there!

This scripture suggests otherwise:

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, WHICH FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation fall away (Luke 8:13).

Now when we put precept upon precept, look how beautifully these two scriptures line up:

For it is impossible for those who were...made partakes of the Holy Ghost...if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance...that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected (Hebrews 6:4-8).

 

[preacher4truth]

Hi there!

This scripture suggests otherwise:

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, WHICH FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation fall away (Luke 8:13).

Now when we put precept upon precept, look how beautifully these two scriptures line up:

For it is impossible for those who were...made partakes of the Holy Ghost...if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance...that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected (Hebrews 6:4-8).

You must be one powerful individual to choose yourself into eternal life, something impossible according to Scripture, John 1:13; John 6:63 &c, and then have the power to choose yourself out of the hand of Christ being more powerful than He; John 10:27ff.

There is no "you" in the Gospel, it is all Him.

This is only one proof your gospel is in error, it is about what you did to gain eternal life, and what you will do to lose it. Yep, it's the gospel of you, not the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

oh? interesting! where does scripture say that?
Proverbs 20:12? Mark 4:11-12? Matthew 13:14?

Mark 4:
[24]...Take heed what ye hear: with what measure you use, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. [25] For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him SHALL BE TAKEN EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH.

And this scripture I cited just happens to follow the parable of the sower in the book of Mark.

 

[mailmandan]

I’ve done that before with the result of your silence, postman, but if I can find a little time here soon, and the Shepherd commands, I’ll respond to your question again.

I thought I asked you that question before, but don’t recall receiving a sufficient answer or maybe it was a vague answer that was not worth responding to. I’m not silent when it comes to the gospel.

 

[posthuman]

Mark 4:
[24]...Take heed what ye hear: with what measure you use, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. [25] For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him SHALL BE TAKEN EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH.

And this scripture I cited just happens to follow the parable of the sower in the book of Mark.

how does a person come to 'have' & what is it that can be taken from a person, yet they do not have?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

You must be one powerful individual to choose yourself into eternal life

What did I say that gave you the impression that I must be a powerful individual?

I chose to believe the gospel and take heed unto the word. How does that diminish God and elevate myself?

I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me (Psalm 119:30).

Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts (Psalm 119:173).

 

[Micaiah-imla]

how does a person come to 'have' & what is it that can be taken from a person, yet they do not have?

Take heed how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he SEEMETH to have (Luke 8:18).

Apply that however the Spirit leads you.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

There is no "you" in the Gospel

For the scripture saith, Whosoever [that includes me!] believeth on him shall not be ashamed (Romans 10:11).

There is a "you" in the gospel. He came to offer you eternal life if you chose to believe and continue in it.

 

[mailmandan]

I see your point.

But the “fear and trembling” part seems to imply a greater consequence if you do not work out your salvation.

If not working out my salvation did not lead to loosing it then why would anyone fear and tremble about not working it out?

If I knew that cops were not permitted to arrest or ticket me then I would not get nervous whenever I got pulled over by the police. But the fact that police can ticket and arrest causes people to be better drivers when they see a cop near by.

As Christians we know that the greater authority (God) is always nearby and watching; this should cause us to be better people at all times: especially because we know that God has power to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I see fearing the Lord for the believer as fear of offending Him and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up. That is an unhealthy fear!

 

[star]

Not "self righteousness" --- confidence. A man is never to lean on his own understanding, but when his spiritual propositions rest on the foundation of God's Infallible Word, anything less than full confidence in their ability to stand the test of Biblical scrutiny is distrust in God Himself.

OSAS has to be propped up by pillars of emotionalism, insult, ridicule, and circled wagons of psuedo-intellectualism, because if left to stand by its own merits, it's crushed under the weight of Biblical reason.

I know the definition of "confidence" and I know the definition of self righteousness. Eternal salvation provided by the one and only Jesus Christ is a done deal. The only issue crushed by biblical reason is false doctrines, self righteousness, lack of trust the ability for God Almighty to finish what He has started with the free gift of salvation and the Seal of His Holy Spirit. You are spewing forth holy than thou doctrine and fanning the fires of salvation by works.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I see fearing the Lord for the believer as fear of offending Him and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2)

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Do people have an awe and reverence over hell?

Or do people have a fear of hell? (Besides the unbelievers).

Obviously we fear hell which is why we ran as quickly as possible to safety in the gospel. And also why we will continue in the gospels' refuge.

But many are like Felix:

[Felix] sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. And as he reasoned or righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee (Acts 24:24-25).

I guess the OSAS answer would be something along this line:

"I have nothing to fear, I am eternally secure"

But look at what the scripture says that fear produces:

Proverbs 14:16
A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but he fool rageth, and is confident.

Some OSAS'ers rage and rail against those who point out the scriptures that contradict their cherished doctrine. But they are soo confident in their belief that they seem to have allowed themselves to be blinded in order not to see the contradictions. This is truly something to behold.

Proverbs 14:6
By the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Finepearl]

No question we have been saved by Grace or God's undeserved kindness. There is no way we can earn salvation on our own merit. [Ephesians 2:8,9]. Saying that works in demonstration of our faith are important and required. [James 2:14,26].