Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Who it is that's claiming Christian Origination is in any other except God alone? The argument is not about Christian Origination, but Christian Obligation. Conditional Salvationalists know good works are the unavoidable consequence of a sinner that's converted to a saint. OSAS defends presumptuous sin by arguing that salvation is a license to commit capital crime without fear of capital punishment.
Yet with zero NT Scripture to back it up. Basically what you're saying is Christ will leave us and forsake us, and, that we should tremble in trepidation because just whenever he wants, he can do it.
What a schizophrenic unbiblical "gospel" it is that you preach.
What is it you think Paul gave him? Works? Effort? A promise to never fail? Nope. He entrusted his eternal future and this was guarded by Christ. Note John 10:27ff.
What Paul said actually establishes eternal security/OSAS/Perseverence of the Saints, because in his wording right there it is all Christ. yet you're using it to say that isn't true.
You should get a new hobby, theology and biblically contextual understandings aren't your forte.
What a schizophrenic unbiblical "gospel" it is that you preach.
What is it you think Paul gave him? Works? Effort? A promise to never fail? Nope. He entrusted his eternal future and this was guarded by Christ. Note John 10:27ff.
What Paul said actually establishes eternal security/OSAS/Perseverence of the Saints, because in his wording right there it is all Christ. yet you're using it to say that isn't true.
You should get a new hobby, theology and biblically contextual understandings aren't your forte.
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Biblical Logical Progression versus OSAS Illogical Perversion
"The just shall live by faith, and if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him."
"For without faith it is impossible to please God."
"Whatsoever is without faith is sin."
"...whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness."
"The just shall live by faith, and if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him."
"For without faith it is impossible to please God."
"Whatsoever is without faith is sin."
"...whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness."
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Biblically speaking....ANYONE that states the GIFT of salvation can be taken back, forfeit or lost, have proven they are absolutely ignorant of the truth. They constantly conflate numerous truths, misapply truth and reject truth on a regular basis.....they also deny word definitions and verb tense.....rather sickening to be honest......!!
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Nice insult, pal. Anyway, are we to believe Lightskin's claim that God's promises belong to apostates as well as the saints who endure to the end?
Leftist Criminal Rights advocates are all the same...putting the selfish interests of those who despise the law ahead of those of the law abiding public. The only difference is that the leftists advocates in church hide their own sins with a garment of religious dignity.
Leftist Criminal Rights advocates are all the same...putting the selfish interests of those who despise the law ahead of those of the law abiding public. The only difference is that the leftists advocates in church hide their own sins with a garment of religious dignity.
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We have the old testament to show us without doubt that the Spirit can leave a person, or a thing, just as easily as He came in, and anytime He wants. Surely you familiar with Ezekiel 10?
"Then the glory of the Lord departed from over the threshold of the temple" - Ezekiel 10:18
And in the New Testament, osas has decided that the word 'sealed' means 'unable to be unsealed'. Of course it has to do that to defend it's assertion that the Holy Spirit can't leave His place of residence. God can lift His seal of ownership anytime He wants to just like He did in the temple in the old covenant.
Yes, He will leave and forsake you, if you leave and forsake him...
"the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:6
"17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. " - Deuteronomy 31:17
It's interesting how the second part of the promise always gets conveniently left off by osas. And if you want to use the tired out argument 'that's the old testament', Paul says the same thing:
"If we disown him, he will also disown us" - 2 Timothy 2:12
(Remember, stay true to your Calvinist osas when answering.)
He has told us what will cause Him to do that.
You only need tremble in trepidation if you do what He says will cause Him to leave you.
If you keep believing you need not fear and tremble anymore than you do about crossing the center line when driving on the road.
Do you characterize your fear of crossing the center line into oncoming traffic as schizophrenic? Then neither should the devout believer about staying on this side of the dividing line between belief and unbelief. A good healthy fear of doing that is sufficient. And that is what Paul tells us to have in Romans 11.
You need not challenge me about some presumed argument about works salvation.
I was challenging the osas teaching that says the necessity to continue believing is us trying to earn our salvation.
Which I know you agree with but what you will be curiously silent about.
No, I'm not saying that.
Continued believing does that.
I'm not a works salvationist.
Just because I don't buy into the osas argument doesn't mean I think justification and salvation is earned on the merit of righteous work.
"Then the glory of the Lord departed from over the threshold of the temple" - Ezekiel 10:18
And in the New Testament, osas has decided that the word 'sealed' means 'unable to be unsealed'. Of course it has to do that to defend it's assertion that the Holy Spirit can't leave His place of residence. God can lift His seal of ownership anytime He wants to just like He did in the temple in the old covenant.
Yes, He will leave and forsake you, if you leave and forsake him...
"the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." - Deuteronomy 31:6
"17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. " - Deuteronomy 31:17
It's interesting how the second part of the promise always gets conveniently left off by osas. And if you want to use the tired out argument 'that's the old testament', Paul says the same thing:
"If we disown him, he will also disown us" - 2 Timothy 2:12
(Remember, stay true to your Calvinist osas when answering.)
He has told us what will cause Him to do that.
You only need tremble in trepidation if you do what He says will cause Him to leave you.
If you keep believing you need not fear and tremble anymore than you do about crossing the center line when driving on the road.
Do you characterize your fear of crossing the center line into oncoming traffic as schizophrenic? Then neither should the devout believer about staying on this side of the dividing line between belief and unbelief. A good healthy fear of doing that is sufficient. And that is what Paul tells us to have in Romans 11.
You need not challenge me about some presumed argument about works salvation.
I was challenging the osas teaching that says the necessity to continue believing is us trying to earn our salvation.
Which I know you agree with but what you will be curiously silent about.
No, I'm not saying that.
Continued believing does that.
I'm not a works salvationist.
Just because I don't buy into the osas argument doesn't mean I think justification and salvation is earned on the merit of righteous work.
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Allowing future generations to still have God's gifts and calling, despite their rejection of their Messiah, is hardly the equivalent of a believer never being able to lose his calling and gifts.
How many dead Israelites residing in hell today would agree with you that God's gifts and calling being irrevocable means what you say it means? Obviously, they show us that doesn't mean what osas says it means.
How many dead Israelites residing in hell today would agree with you that God's gifts and calling being irrevocable means what you say it means? Obviously, they show us that doesn't mean what osas says it means.
Even when called out for being juvenile, baby Christians continue to act like the immature believers that they are.
They keep proving the accusations of being babies in Christ leveled against them by continuing to act like babies in Christ.
That's been a curious thing about this forum.
They keep proving the accusations of being babies in Christ leveled against them by continuing to act like babies in Christ.
That's been a curious thing about this forum.
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