Catholicism vs Protestantism

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J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#801
Feb 6, 2014
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Dan_473 said:
I don't think Catholics are saying that devout Muslims who have heard all about Jesus and the Catholic Church and refuse to believe are saved. Do you think that's what Catholics are saying?


No, I don't believe all professing Christians are saved.
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Not state but it imply

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
 
H

HWatts

Member
#802
Apr 17, 2020
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#802
You can tell a tree by its fruit.

When I see all the hospitals begun by Catholics, Baptists, Methodists and other Christian believers, I see tons of fruit. Think I'm satisfied to let God do the judging, while I struggle to live up to Jesus' two-part reply to the question of what constitutes the greatest commandment, citing two that sum up the law and the prophets. If exercised, those two increase unity among the body of Christian believers.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#803
Mar 11, 2014
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Jackson123 said:
Than tell me what part on my point was wrong. Let have honest talk
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Well, where to start? Talking about the things that I think you haven't understood correctly is what I've been doing.

Can you summarize what you understand I've been saying so far?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#804
Mar 11, 2014
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#804
Jackson123 said:
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

I think you interprate this paragraph

Muslim that never hear catholic in the plan of salvation.
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No, I don't think it says that.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#806
Feb 6, 2014
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#806
HWatts said:
You can tell a tree by its fruit.

When I see all the hospitals begun by Catholics, Baptists, Methodists and other Christian believers, I see tons of fruit. Think I'm satisfied to let God do the judging, while I struggle to live up to Jesus' two-part reply to the question of what constitutes the greatest commandment, citing two that sum up the law and the prophets. If exercised, those two increase unity among the body of Christian believers.
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In my country Buddhist, and Muslim build hospital too.

Is that mean they save?
At
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#807
Feb 6, 2014
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#807
Dan_473 said:
Who all do they say is in the plan of salvation?
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I don't understand you question.

Don't it say Muslim profess and hold the faith of abraham

And together with us adore the one mercy God?
 
H

HWatts

Member
#809
Apr 17, 2020
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#809
Jackson123 said:
In my country Buddhist, and Muslim build hospital too.

Is that mean they save?
At
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Definitely not. Jesus saves. Not religion. Not even the Christian religion. The Lord does the saving. You'll have to ask Him who He will forgive and who He won't - no man can answer. Most certainly not me.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#810
Feb 6, 2014
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#810
Dan_473 said:
Well, where to start? Talking about the things that I think you haven't understood correctly is what I've been doing.

Can you summarize what you understand I've been saying so far?
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I think you say I misunderstood ccc 841, ccc 816

Than prove me wrong
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#811
Feb 6, 2014
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#811
HWatts said:
Definitely not. Jesus saves. Not religion. Not even the Christian religion. The Lord does the saving. You'll have to ask Him who He will forgive and who He won't - no man can answer. Most certainly not me.
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No man able to answer who is save, but God say to be save you have to follow Jesus, mean follow the teaching of Jesus,

Do you believe this is the teaching of Jesus ?

Muslim don't believe in Jesus, why catholic say it in the plan of salvation?

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#812
Mar 11, 2014
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#812
Jackson123 said:
Is that verse mean we are God?
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I don't think so. But I think it shows the issue with this syllogism
Christ is God.
We are the body of Christ.
Therefore we are God.

I think the issue is that you each statement, while true, is not all of the truth. For example, Christ is God, but Christ is not all of who God is.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#813
Mar 11, 2014
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#813
Jackson123 said:
816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
Have

Help me to understand the first sentence

"The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care"

What is sole mean

A lot or the only?
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Sole probably means only in that context.
There was only one Church. Most Protestants agree with that.
but I don't think you're going to understand the Catholic teaching on the church unless you're willing to go step by step.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#814
Mar 11, 2014
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#814
Jackson123 said:
The deviation is too wide.
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Do you have a list of what doctrines a person must believe in order to be a Christian?

How much of a deviation can there be before you say they are not a Christian?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#815
Mar 11, 2014
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#815
Jackson123 said:
Read ccc 841

It say Muslim in the plan of salvation

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes...
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Not quite, it says "The plan of salvation also includes..."
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#816
Mar 11, 2014
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#816
Jackson123 said:
Can you show me official doctrine that support you point?
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Sure!

Romans 6: 3 "Or don't you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection."

In baptism we are united with Christ.

But that's probably not what you meant by official document.

The thing is, Catholic teaching goes back two thousand years. So you can't really pick out a sentence somewhere and say that it contains the whole of Catholic teaching.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#817
Mar 11, 2014
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#817
Jackson123 said:
Not state but it imply

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
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I don't see that implication in there.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#818
Mar 11, 2014
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#818
Jackson123 said:
I don't understand you question.

Don't it say Muslim profess and hold the faith of abraham

And together with us adore the one mercy God?
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They talked about many people besides Muslims. Who all do they talk about?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#819
Mar 11, 2014
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#819
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#820
Mar 11, 2014
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#820
Jackson123 said:
I think you say I misunderstood ccc 841, ccc 816

Than prove me wrong
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To do that is going to require a step-by-step approach so that we can be sure we are understanding each other along the way, imo.
 
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