Not By Works

[posthuman]

a bazillion dollars

i did the math here a few days ago -- here is a link to the specific post:

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4217514

the parable in Matthew 18 involves almost 18.1 billion dollars in gold, versus about $150 in silver.
the meanings attached to 'gold' and 'silver' in the law are not insignificant to the understanding of the parable.


i believe it is good to be accurate when we can be

 

[posthuman]

we Conditional Salvationists think you OSAS folks suffer from the mental disorder that is theological liberalism.

can you tell me why people keep flooding into this thread to argue that Ephesians 2:8-9 is incorrect?

why do people exist that think verse 10 contradicts verses 8 & 9, why do they think they are right, and why are they so vehemently opposed? to the point that they will be banned and return over and over again to keep arguing that the scripture is wrong?

what makes it so hard for you to accept that an adopted son or daughter of God would do good works for any reason other than fear of punishment and damnation?

 

[posthuman]

can you tell me why people keep flooding into this thread to argue that Ephesians 2:8-9 is incorrect?

why do people exist that think verse 10 contradicts verses 8 & 9, why do they think they are right, and why are they so vehemently opposed? to the point that they will be banned and return over and over again to keep arguing that the scripture is wrong?

what makes it so hard for you to accept that an adopted son or daughter of God would do good works for any reason other than fear of punishment and damnation?

@Phoneman-777

why are certain people so unwilling to admit that God, and God alone saves? why are these people so sworn to making His work contingent on their own will and efforts? why won't they accept that Romans 9:16 is true?

are you able to explain this madness of men?
what exactly is it they despise?

 

[posthuman]

And yet in all that brilliance the fact that the servant was in fact forgiven escapes notice.
Amazing.

you need to accept that 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 is true.

the sin of the world was not imputed to the world, because of the propitiation of the cross.

the word despises the gift of God, and for this rejection they die in their sins, because they will not believe He is I AM.

why is it that you prefer to call Christ a liar in John 10, rather than believe?
is it just too amazing that He will not lose a single one of His own? that those who depart from Him were never His?
why do you find it so necessary to devote yourself to arguing against Him, saying that goats used to be sheep?

is it too difficult for you to admit that your friend was not really saved?
or is it too difficult for you to admit that God is able to reconcile them?

looking for 'root-cause' here. this thread has been an amazing conundrum; i find it very difficult to comprehend why people, people who are not Biblically illiterate, are so driven to tirelessly reject the good news of the free gift of God in favor of bondage and salvation by merit. i find myself wondering if it is a lack of faith -- that they simply can't conceive of God being willing and able to save the lost? to account faith in the heart of the ungodly as righteousness?
do you not understand what it means for the dead to be brought to life? the dead has no part in that -- they cannot raise themselves. only The One who gives life, can give life. so i wonder, do you really not understand it? or is it just so wonderful that you can't accept it as being true?

 

[Lightskin]

Sorry but there is no self in salvation!!

But, but, what about my works? 🤷‍♂️

 

[Lightskin]

you can put me on record as saying you are not likely to hear the real gospel from a real Christian in a pub.

If by “real gospel” you mean you can lose your salvation, you’re right, you won’t hear that crap in a pub. But you will hear the Gospel in pubs, you can count on it.

 

[Lightskin]

Yes, I know.
In your 'religion' since he denounces the gospel he can actually be saved.

Uh oh, you’re being immature and defensive. Time for your milk, pussycat.

 

[VCO]

Not offended at all.

I'm a Berean.

I am always honest, but you by inference say I'm not.

You got offended again and can't hear a word I say either.
That's so typical of you.

I know what the Bible says and I spent a long time researching what I was taught to the reality of it.

As for you "Don't make it at what you want it or what you blindly were told it says"

BE HONEST, what church do you attend?

That is like flogging a dead horse. It has been my experience that People who SCREAM the loudest, opposing OSAS doctrines, NOT ONLY WILL NOT TELL US THE DENOMINATION OR TYPE OF CHURCH where they worship, BUT have NO Correct IDEA about what we TEACH and BELIEVE, and insist on telling LIES about our Doctrine, such as OSAS teaches it is okay to SIN all you want, which is a total LIE.

 

[Lightskin]

Because it illustrates the error of your 'new' osas theology.
You believe that there is NOTHING that can prevent the 'Christian' from being saved when Jesus comes back, not even a return to the bars in unbelief and a trampling on the blood of Christ.

Christian and “ Christian” are entirely two different things. Hopefully one day you’ll be the latter, but at this point it’s doubtful.

 

[CherieR]

@Judges1318, here are some songs that have references to Ezekiel 37.

 

[CherieR]

But, but, what about my works? 🤷‍♂️

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:8-10 ( NKJV )

 

[VCO]

You got offended when I said John 5:24 was milk knowledge.
And I showed you where the Bible says it's milk knowledge.


So, then, you now see John 5:24 really is milk knowledge, right?


I listen to what everybody says.
I do not get offended when you or anybody else does not agree with me.
But you people get angry and offended when someone doesn't agree with your precious osas doctrine.
And offended when you're told to grow up into that which really matters in the faith.


The Fruits of the Spirit

So are you saying, YOU DO NOT GO TO ANY CHURCH! You stay at home and formulate your OWN opinion about what the Scriptures actually MEAN. If so, that is a completely foolish idea.

Matthew 28:17-20 (HCSB)
17 When they saw Him, they worshiped, but some doubted.
18 Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Ephesians 4:11-15 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.
15 But speaking the truth in love, let us grow in every way into Him who is the head—Christ.

Hebrews 10:24-26 (HCSB)
24 And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works,
25 not staying away from our ⌊worship⌋ meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and
all the more as you see the day drawing near.
26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


If you are saying you do not go to CHURCH, you are deliberately SINNING.

 

[azamzimtoti]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:8-10 ( NKJV )

What the werkers have done is sneakily change the "boast" into "must do works to maintain the gift."

 

[VCO]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:8-10 ( NKJV )

EXACTLY!

Works are PART of our LOVING WALK WITH CHRIST; it never has been part of our SALVATION.

 

[EleventhHour]

Because it illustrates the error of your 'new' osas theology.
You believe that there is NOTHING that can prevent the 'Christian' from being saved when Jesus comes back, not even a return to the bars in unbelief and a trampling on the blood of Christ.

Those who teach a "losable" salvation trample on the blood of Christ... because it is insufficient to save to the uttermost.

 

[azamzimtoti]

I love that statement uttermost - I utter it all the time.

(Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them)

 

[azamzimtoti]

Where did muttermost Dennis go?

 

[Judges1318]

Those who teach a "losable" salvation trample on the blood of Christ... because it is insufficient to save to the uttermost.

After getting saved to the uttermost, if you go back to the guttermost where you came from you will be trampling on the blood of Christ by which you were saved to the uttermost.

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." - Hebrews 10:26-31

Yes, yes, I know.
The passage 'doesn't really' mean what it says.
Don't bother restating the osas arguments of how it 'doesn't really' mean what it says.

 

[Lightskin]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:8-10 ( NKJV )

I’ll stick with my works, thank you.

Not really. I just wanted to know what it felt like to imitate a worker bee salvationist. 😉

 

[Judges1318]

Where did muttermost Dennis go?

" 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other." - Galatians 5:26