A new look at Colossians 2:16

[garee]

I think it is garbage and a false teaching. God never changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Do the research and you will find that for the fist 300 years or so of the early church the Sabbath was kept on Saturday. But after Constantine the Great merged the power of the Roman church with the riches of the state and the church and state became one, the Roman Church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The belief is that Constantine wanted to set aside a special day for Christ so he designated Saturday to be "Sons Day". But to make it short I will just say that the Roman church compromised it's integrity and adopted pagan ritual into the church and that is how the Sabbath was changed and that is why we now call our day of worship Sun-day.
The relationship between the Roman church and the Jerusalem church was a continuous relationship for a very long time because the Roman church was always trying to change things like what day should Easter should be celebrated on so on. Eventually the power of the Jerusalem Church faded while the power of the Roman church became stronger and more wide spread so that the Jerusalem was no longer. This is why we now have so called Christian Holy Days such as Christmas and all of the pagan traditions and pagan rituals that folks perform in their efforts to worship Christ.

The word Sabbath is a non time sensitive word. It cannot be put into a box. Saturday or Sunday or any day . it represents to day as long as we are under the Sun .

The meaning was completely destroyed by turning the word rest into week . The mistranslated word "week" is used 9 times in the KJ.It does make rest a non time sensitive word "rest" without effect. The focus becomes a time period and not rest. The great treasure of

His power that works in us with us making the load lighter.

 

[Blik]

How can men decide that Sunday should be the Sabbath? If God made the seventh day the Sabbath and blessed it, surely men have no power to change it, anymore than they can make a union of sodomites a marriage?

However, if men choose to communally worship their Lord on a Sunday, in honour of their Lord's resurrection ushuring in the New Covenant in His blood on this day, what is that to you?

What changing what God tells us is to me is that I am not to judge them for changing the day, but I am to listen to God for myself. We are to judge sin and accept man with love.

 

[Blik]

It's an old interpretation; one which ignores the next verse, which Posthuman has already noted.

The next verse tells us that "these things" are a shadow of the things to come. Paul has just said that we aren't to be judged for pleasure in feasting, etc. and now Paul tells us that through Christ we have the joy of eternal life and the pleasure of the feasts are just a shadow of these things.

 

[Blik]

I think it is garbage and a false teaching. God never changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Do the research and you will find that for the fist 300 years or so of the early church the Sabbath was kept on Saturday. But after Constantine the Great merged the power of the Roman church with the riches of the state and the church and state became one, the Roman Church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The belief is that Constantine wanted to set aside a special day for Christ so he designated Saturday to be "Sons Day". But to make it short I will just say that the Roman church compromised it's integrity and adopted pagan ritual into the church and that is how the Sabbath was changed and that is why we now call our day of worship Sun-day.
The relationship between the Roman church and the Jerusalem church was a continuous relationship for a very long time because the Roman church was always trying to change things like what day should Easter should be celebrated on so on. Eventually the power of the Jerusalem Church faded while the power of the Roman church became stronger and more wide spread so that the Jerusalem was no longer. This is why we now have so called Christian Holy Days such as Christmas and all of the pagan traditions and pagan rituals that folks perform in their efforts to worship Christ.

I wonder that for years and years no one really listened to how God created our world to operate, men liked ordering it their own way. They don't listen to scripture as the authority, but just look to scripture to back up their own decisions about what they want it to say.

Think of how much of our world is following the occult! Our week days are all named for false Gods. Every single holiday is copying pagan ones, men say when God gave us the Holy Spirit and the new covenant it really means we aren't to listen to God any more but follow men. Men follow the crowd and the crowd followed the occult. I wonder, for God knew that when they found that Christ had risen on Sunday morning that man would use that to say God changed how He created Sabbath! God uses everything for good, I wonder what the good is in this decision by men. I also wonder that man decided that God changed something God created at the beginning of our world, for we learn of the Sabbath as we learn how God created in the first chapter of scripture.

 

[Blik]

The word Sabbath is a non time sensitive word. It cannot be put into a box. Saturday or Sunday or any day . it represents to day as long as we are under the Sun .
.

God put the Sabbath in a box when God created it. Our time is different from God's time, God's time is eternal and our time is measured by days. God put the Sabbath into our time.

In the first chapter of Genesis we are told of God's creation in days, or our time, and God put the Sabbath into the last day of the week.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is quite a new interpretation, what do you think?

If you prefer shadows to reality, then you do have a very serious problem. Delusions begin with preferring shadows to reality.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In the first chapter of Genesis we are told of God's creation in days, or our time, and God put the Sabbath into the last day of the week.

If we take Monday as the beginning of the work week (as is standard practice worldwide), what do you think the 7th day becomes?

 

[Diakonos]

. . . having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Therefore



but the substance is Christ

Amen! Don't let the Judaizers drag you back to the Law

 

[Blik]

If you prefer shadows to reality, then you do have a very serious problem. Delusions begin with preferring shadows to reality.

Paul calls the way we celebrate with joy in our lifetime the shadow, the reality is the way we live with the Lord after our worldly death. Well, I love living my life on this earth, so tell me I shouldn't if you want, I still love my life here.

 

[Blik]

Amen! Don't let the Judaizers drag you back to the Law

I don't think that loving the Lord and wanting to follow Him makes me one who thinks I completely obey Him by cutting my flesh or regulating my diet or a "judaizer" as you say.

I'm not going to apologize to you for loving God.

 

[SoulWeaver]

No Christian believes that Sunday is Sabbath. These are two different days with different meaning.
Sunday is about the new beginning, and comes after Sabbath which is rest. Jesus rested in grave, then arose.
We are presently keeping Sabbath, aka resting in Jesus from our works (Hebrews 4), so we can arise with Him. This completes the creational week as we become the perfect creature in Him. Sabbath is to be kept holy, and this is only possible through Jesus. So after Sabbath is completed, there is new life in Jesus for all those in Him.
So this is what people are looking forward to, and what Sunday represents. It seems like you yourself @Blik are confusing Sunday and Sabbath.

 

[Blik]

If we take Monday as the beginning of the work week (as is standard practice worldwide), what do you think the 7th day becomes?

I don't listen to the world to tell me how God created this world, I listen to the Lord. You go ahead a follow the flesh, don't ask me to do that.

 

[Dino246]

The next verse tells us that "these things" are a shadow of the things to come. Paul has just said that we aren't to be judged for pleasure in feasting, etc. and now Paul tells us that through Christ we have the joy of eternal life and the pleasure of the feasts are just a shadow of these things.

Here is a selection of translations of verse 17 from the more popular and better-accepted versions (from BibleGateway.org):

AMP Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value; but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ.

DARBY which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

ESV These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

HCSB These are a shadow of what was to come; the substance is the Messiah.

KJV Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

MOUNCE These are but a shadow of what was to come, but the reality is found in Christ.

NASB things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

NIV These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

NKJV which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

NLT For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

NRSV These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

YLT which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;

The gist of all of them is that the reality is found in Christ. The implied time is now, not in the future. That means if you want to celebrate the Sabbath and the feasts, you can, but why bother with shadows when you have the real thing. Given, you cannot possibly make a case that Christians are encouraged to celebrate the OT ceremonial days. Such a claim is completely antithetical to verse 17.

 

[Diakonos]

People here keep throwing around the term "covenant" loosely.

The fact that 4 of the covenants are to Israel, three of which are unconditional....speaks volumes and should be distinguished. A "covenant" or "Law" in one verse does not equal a covenant/Law in another.

2. There are 8 covenants, here is a brief summary:
(1) The Edenic Covenant (Gen. 1:26–28) conditioned the life of man in innocency.
(2) The Adamic Covenant (Gen. 3:14–19 ) conditions the life of fallen man and gives promise of a Redeemer.
(3) The Noahic Covenant (Gen. 9:1, ) establishes the principle of human government.
(4) The Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 15:18 ) founds the nation of Israel, and confirms, with specific additions, the Adamic promise of redemption.
(5) The Mosaic Covenant (Ex. 19:25 ) condemns all men, “for that all have sinned.”
(6) The Palestinian Covenant (Deut. 28–30:3 ) secures the final restoration and conversion of Israel.
(7) The Davidic Covenant (2 Sam. 7:8–17) establishes the perpetuity of the Davidic family (fulfilled in Christ, Mt. 1:1; Lk. 1:31–33; Rom. 1:3), and of the Davidic kingdom, over Israel and over the whole earth; to be fulfilled in and by Christ (2 Sam. 7:8–17; Zech. 12:8; Lk. 1:31–33; Acts 15:14–17; 1 Cor. 15:24).
(8) The New Covenant rests upon the sacrifice of Christ, and secures the eternal blessedness, under the Abrahamic Covenant (Gal. 3:13–29), of all who believe. It is absolutely unconditional, and, since no responsibility is by it committed to man, it is final and irreversible.

The relation of Christ to the eight covenants:
(1) To the Edenic Covenant, Christ, as the “second Man,” the “last Adam” (1 Cor. 15:45–47), takes the place over all things which the first Adam lost (Col. 2:10; Heb. 2:7–8),
(2) He is the “Seed of the woman” of the Adamic Covenant (Gen. 3:15; John 12:31; 1 John 3:8; Gal. 4:4; Rev. 20:10), and fulfilled its conditions of toil (Mk. 6:3) and obedience.
(3) As the greatest son of Shem, in Him was fulfilled supremely the promise to Shem in the Noahic Covenant (Gen. 9:1; Col. 2:9).
(4) He is the “Seed to whom the promises were made” in the Abrahamic Covenant; the son of Abraham obedient unto death (Gen. 22:18; Gal. 3:16; Phil. 2:8).
(5) He lived sinlessly under the Mosaic Covenant and bore for us its curse (Gal. 3:10–13).
(6) He lived obediently as a Jew in the land under the Palestinian Covenant, and will yet perform its gracious promises (Deut. 28–30:1–9).
(7) He is the “Seed,” “Heir,” and “King” under the Davidic Covenant (Mt. 1:1; Lk. 1:31–33).
(8) His sacrifice is the foundation of the New Covenant (Mt. 26, 28; 1 Cor. 11:25).

 

[Deuteronomy]

I apologize for the somewhat graceless nature of this website that I just found, but for those who are interested, it does contain a lot of interesting information & quotes about the choice of early Christians to worship on the Lord's Day/Sunday, with quotes from various sources beginning with the Didache (an important 1st Century document).

https://www.bible.ca/H-sunday.htm

~Deut
p.s. - http://www.thedidache.com/

 

[Diakonos]

I don't think that loving the Lord and wanting to follow Him makes me one who thinks I completely obey Him by cutting my flesh or regulating my diet or a "judaizer" as you say.

I'm not going to apologize to you for loving God.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was commending you for putting the verse in context.

 

[Dino246]

No Christian believes that Sunday is Sabbath.

You'd be surprised; I've run across quite a few who do. Usually the kind who don't know their Bibles very well though. Mainline denomination types.

These are two different days with different meaning.

Agreed.

What I find though is that a lot of Christians think that Saturday is the Sabbath, which is not true either.

 

[Blik]

Here is a selection of translations of verse 17 from the more popular and better-accepted versions (from BibleGateway.org):

AMP Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value; but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ.

DARBY which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

ESV These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

HCSB These are a shadow of what was to come; the substance is the Messiah.

KJV Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

MOUNCE These are but a shadow of what was to come, but the reality is found in Christ.

NASB things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

NIV These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

NKJV which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

NLT For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

NRSV These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

YLT which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;

The gist of all of them is that the reality is found in Christ. The implied time is now, not in the future. That means if you want to celebrate the Sabbath and the feasts, you can, but why bother with shadows when you have the real thing. Given, you cannot possibly make a case that Christians are encouraged to celebrate the OT ceremonial days. Such a claim is completely antithetical to verse 17.

It is absolutely wonderful how scripture can be managed to back up what men want it to say!

I don't see the advantage to making scripture say we shouldn't do as scripture tells us to do. Scripture tells us to celebrate and be joyful. Why try to make it say differently? I know, because you don't want to celebrate as scripture says, it seems more fun to celebrate following how the pagans do, they seem to have a wonderful time. And you can Christianize their celebrations, and use scripture to do that.

 

[SoulWeaver]

You'd be surprised; I've run across quite a few who do. Usually the kind who don't know their Bibles very well though. Mainline denomination types.


Agreed.

What I find though is that a lot of Christians think that Saturday is the Sabbath, which is not true either.

I agree.
I was referring to the claim that many Christians have this "secret evil agenda" to supposedly "swap" Saturday for Sunday (which is a claim I have often heard over the years). I have personally not yet heard a Christian say that Sunday is the new Saturday, or new Sabbath, or something like that. People simply love Sunday because it means a new beginning and they connect it with resurrection.
Appreciate your precision, it's a quality I lack.

 

[Dino246]

It is absolutely wonderful how scripture can be managed to back up what men want it to say!

That's disingenuous, and beneath you.

I don't see the advantage to making scripture say we shouldn't do as scripture tells us to do. Scripture tells us to celebrate and be joyful. Why try to make it say differently? I know, because you don't want to celebrate as scripture says, it seems more fun to celebrate following how the pagans do, they seem to have a wonderful time. And you can Christianize their celebrations, and use scripture to do that.

While your accusation about making Scripture say whatever men want is completely off the mark, is that any worse than picking which Scripture verses apply to you and which don't? That's what you seem to do.

You simply don't seem to understand the distinction between the covenants. If God intended Christians to follow the directions given to Israel, then Christians would be pleasing God by slaughtering Canaanites and stoning adulterers.

Here's a question for you: if God intended His commands to Israel to be followed indefinitely, why did He allow the complete destruction of the Levitical system of worship, including the temple itself, in 70 AD?