Catholicism vs Protestantism
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Well, if you don't know about whether a person who has never heard about Jesus can be saved, then logically you cannot criticize someone who has an answer one way or the other, because they might be correct.
Do you follow what I'm saying there?
I agree that you are a Christian because you believe in Jesus. Would you agree that everyone is a Christian who believes in Jesus?
Do you follow what I'm saying there?
I agree that you are a Christian because you believe in Jesus. Would you agree that everyone is a Christian who believes in Jesus?
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Well, the church is the body of Christ on Earth. And it looks to me like in Paul's presentation of the basic gospel, he includes believers like Peter and the apostles, which would be the church, the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 15: 1 Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.
I agree that everyone who believes in Jesus is saved. Of course, this kind of raises the question of what a person needs to believe about Jesus in order to be saved.
1 Corinthians 15: 1 Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.
I agree that everyone who believes in Jesus is saved. Of course, this kind of raises the question of what a person needs to believe about Jesus in order to be saved.
Holy Spirit help me to understand.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
I believe this promise is for every individual
Do you believe this promise only for apostle or elder?
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
I believe this promise is for every individual
Do you believe this promise only for apostle or elder?
We know as he gives us his understanding that works in us it does not come from us . We previously had no way of hearing God. The gospel gave us the proper tools The hearing of his faith, to believe Him not seen. The hearing of his faith, is the first work of his love that works in us till the end.
No special judgement like limbo or purgatory. Mercy is the special judgement that releases us from the bondage of sin
No special judgement like limbo or purgatory. Mercy is the special judgement that releases us from the bondage of sin
I think everyone in this chat room believes in Jesus like you but with different doctrine don't know from where
Lumen gentium II/14
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
We are talking about romans 2:12-16
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
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Sure thing! Here's an example of something written by someone who has "read the whole story".
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...ally-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church
"A Catholic Contradiction?
Perhaps the one paragraph in the CCC used more than any other to “prove” Catholics contradict themselves with regard to this the doctrine “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” is paragraph 841, which is given to us under the heading: “The Church’s Relationship with the Muslims” "
And then he talks about the passage in lumen gentium.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...ally-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church
"A Catholic Contradiction?
Perhaps the one paragraph in the CCC used more than any other to “prove” Catholics contradict themselves with regard to this the doctrine “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” is paragraph 841, which is given to us under the heading: “The Church’s Relationship with the Muslims” "
And then he talks about the passage in lumen gentium.
Yes, I agree with believe the teaching of Jesus.
Jesus taught a lot of things. Do you have to believe every single one of them to be saved?
And do you have to believe them a particular way? Here's what I mean:
Matthew 5: 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.
I'm sure you've met people here on CC that take this to mean that Jesus taught that we are to keep the law. But other people disagree. Is this a teaching of Jesus that we have to believe in a particular way in order to be saved?
Another example
Mark 16: 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it will in no way hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Have you heard of snake handlers here in the USA? Taking up the snake?
That's not something a person has to believe to be saved, imo. And many people don't actually believe that is a teaching of Jesus, but that it was added later.
Jesus taught a lot of things. Do you have to believe every single one of them to be saved?
And do you have to believe them a particular way? Here's what I mean:
Matthew 5: 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.
I'm sure you've met people here on CC that take this to mean that Jesus taught that we are to keep the law. But other people disagree. Is this a teaching of Jesus that we have to believe in a particular way in order to be saved?
Another example
Mark 16: 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it will in no way hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Have you heard of snake handlers here in the USA? Taking up the snake?
That's not something a person has to believe to be saved, imo. And many people don't actually believe that is a teaching of Jesus, but that it was added later.
We are talking about romans 2:12-16
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
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To get a clear picture, let’s begin with the necessity of salvation in Jesus Christ. In the Gospel of St. John, and in the very next chapter after Jesus makes his famous statement, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me” (John 14:6), which I quoted above, this same Jesus also said, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” (John 15:22; see also John 9:41). Jesus presents a very important principle here: a person is not responsible for what they could not have known. The implication is that it is possible to have a salvific link with Christ without knowing him formally. If this is so, and it is, according to Scripture, then it stands to reason that in the same way, one can have a salvific relationship with the Church without knowing the truth that the Church is the fullness of Christ on this earth (see also the case of Cornelius the centurion in Acts 10:1-4, 34-35).
What I mean by a “formal relationship” with the Church is that a person has been formally baptized into Christ and has made a profession of faith in the one, true faith of the Catholic Church (assuming he has reached the age of accountability). However, a person can possibly have a salvific link with Christ and his Church in various ways, some of which are known to God alone. This can be via the valid sacraments they may have, e.g., all seven with the Orthodox, or two with Protestants (baptism and matrimony). Or, it may be via what the Council fathers called “the images and shadows” of truth that the various world religions possess. Indeed, even “those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to lead a good life” will not be denied by Divine Providence what the Council fathers called “the helps necessary for salvation” (Lumen Gentium,16).
Quote
From the link you give me I quote this part
Basically catholic believe the only true church is catholic, so only member of catholic save.
But for people that don't know it may save.
Same problem
Why Vatican say Muslim save because worship abraham god?
Lumen g do not say : Muslim that don't know catholic save
Anyway what is the definition of know Catholics?
Almost every body on earth know Catholic Church
Is read about catholic mean know catholic
I have to say sorry not offend but in fact the more I read about catholic the more I convince that catholic work for lucifer.
Out of love I advice you brother, pray more and consider come to Jesus not catholic
The teaching and catholic big project NWO is directly against Jesus.
To get a clear picture, let’s begin with the necessity of salvation in Jesus Christ. In the Gospel of St. John, and in the very next chapter after Jesus makes his famous statement, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me” (John 14:6), which I quoted above, this same Jesus also said, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” (John 15:22; see also John 9:41). Jesus presents a very important principle here: a person is not responsible for what they could not have known. The implication is that it is possible to have a salvific link with Christ without knowing him formally. If this is so, and it is, according to Scripture, then it stands to reason that in the same way, one can have a salvific relationship with the Church without knowing the truth that the Church is the fullness of Christ on this earth (see also the case of Cornelius the centurion in Acts 10:1-4, 34-35).
What I mean by a “formal relationship” with the Church is that a person has been formally baptized into Christ and has made a profession of faith in the one, true faith of the Catholic Church (assuming he has reached the age of accountability). However, a person can possibly have a salvific link with Christ and his Church in various ways, some of which are known to God alone. This can be via the valid sacraments they may have, e.g., all seven with the Orthodox, or two with Protestants (baptism and matrimony). Or, it may be via what the Council fathers called “the images and shadows” of truth that the various world religions possess. Indeed, even “those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to lead a good life” will not be denied by Divine Providence what the Council fathers called “the helps necessary for salvation” (Lumen Gentium,16).
Quote
From the link you give me I quote this part
Basically catholic believe the only true church is catholic, so only member of catholic save.
But for people that don't know it may save.
Same problem
Why Vatican say Muslim save because worship abraham god?
Lumen g do not say : Muslim that don't know catholic save
Anyway what is the definition of know Catholics?
Almost every body on earth know Catholic Church
Is read about catholic mean know catholic
I have to say sorry not offend but in fact the more I read about catholic the more I convince that catholic work for lucifer.
Out of love I advice you brother, pray more and consider come to Jesus not catholic
The teaching and catholic big project NWO is directly against Jesus.