Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Jackson123]

I'm sure you agree that there is just one Church, one body

Ephesians 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.

The question I think is whether God set up this one Church with a single authority structure, or many different authority structures, or no authority structure at all.




The two possible explanations I can think of

Catholics are really stupid.

Or

There's something that you're not understanding.

There is one body, all Christian is part of the body of Christ. But also bible give us a tool to identified If one part of the body or not. I am not expect perfect church, but at least claim or bible base teaching.

Water that we drink is not bactery free, but please don't drink sewage water.

Most church claim bible base, but there are differenses interpretation . But catholic admit Use tradition, magester claim peter was in rome to get reason to say pope is his successor so catholic the only church establish by Jesus, and a Lot more Lie doctrine that endanger her member.

About 11 years ago my catholic neigbors refused to Eat end up in the hospital, she say, Mary instruct her to do so

I believe this action base oN the catholic teaching that say Mary able to talk to catholic.

About muslim in the plan of salvation, I am not say vatican stupid, but vatican Lie

Vatican have history of Lie, Example sale forgiveness certificate. Not because vatican so stupid and believe If you pay her your sin forgiven, vatican smart enough to know It wasn't right, vatican knew It is Lie, but It did It for money.

So does the doctrine about muslim in the plan of salvation, It us Lie, I believe this doctrine is to SUPPORT one world religion as foundation If one world government

 

[Jackson123]

I don't mean that post to sound harsh, Jackson my brother. You might be interested in this. The part in lumen gentium where Muslims are mentioned is section 16, I believe.

Just a little earlier, in section 14, it says this.

"...the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation."

My brother, I hope you not think I hate you. As a non perfect Christian I try to love you brother, that is why I try to show you how catholic teaching is unbiblical and inconsistent.
Quote
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
End quote

In other word, If one ( muslim, Buddhist, Hindu etc) know that salvation only by catholic but refused to be catholic or exist from catholic Will not save

Than why vatican say muslim include in the plan of salvation because together with catholic adore the one and mercy God

If vatican only want to say every body that know salvation only by catholic but refuse to be member not save, say so. I don't believe It but be consistent

14 say the reason not save is know but refuse so If don't know than It may be save
> to make easy :A muslim save because don't know catholic

B.16 say muslim save because together with catholic adore the one and mercy God.

So the reason muslim save is A or B

Muslim adore Allah, do you adore Allah too?

You share the same God with muslim isn't It?

Why this same God tell Christian Jesus is God but tell muslim Jesus is not God?
Is that mean God Lie to muslim?



So what is the

 

[chanchuinchoy]

1) The word "allah" is arabic word which means in english God. The reason why the muslims forbits or became angry with nn-muslims using this word "allah"is because they (muslims) feel that this word should be sacred to them. This was an issue also in Malaysia couple of year back. The malaysian muslims forbits translation of our bible in malay language for the word allah as god. Eventually the malaysian christian leaders accept to use the word tuhan instead of allah when referring to god.

 

[Jackson123]

1) The word "allah" is arabic word which means in english God. The reason why the muslims forbits or became angry with nn-muslims using this word "allah"is because they (muslims) feel that this word should be sacred to them. This was an issue also in Malaysia couple of year back. The malaysian muslims forbits translation of our bible in malay language for the word allah as god. Eventually the malaysian christian leaders accept to use the word tuhan instead of allah when referring to god.

Why catholic say muslim adore Abraham God

Abraham God teach Jesus is God, muslim god say Jesus not god

 

[chanchuinchoy]

1) The word "allah" is arabic word which means in english God. The reason why the muslims forbits or became angry with nn-muslims using this word "allah"is because they (muslims) feel that this word should be sacred to them. This was an issue also in Malaysia couple of year back. The malaysian muslims forbits translation of our bible in malay language for the word allah as god. Eventually the malaysian christian leaders accept to use the word tuhan instead of allah when referring to god.

2) Maybe you might ask, what is the difference between muslim and islam? Islam is a type of religion whereas muslims is its followers, just like Christian is a religion (rather personally i don't think is a religion only but more than that, ie a way of life because all 'founders of any religion in this world is either 6 foot under the ground or going to be whereas ours is still living today, tomorrow and forever).

3) Personally I don't consider catholicism is Christianity at all because they have swayed from the teaching of the bible, example, using 'rosary' to pray, glorified mary, mother of Jesus than Jesus himself, when walking thru the church aisle, knee down facing mary before taking a sit at the church catheral etc........

 

[chanchuinchoy]

Why catholic say muslim adore Abraham God

Abraham God teach Jesus is God, muslim god say Jesus not god

How many religion do you think there is in this wide world? Every religion existed in this world claimed that their God is true God. As Christians, we know for a fact that there is only 1 true God and I think it is the work of the holy spirit to bear witness that Jesus if the only sons of only God.

 

[Jackson123]

1) The word "allah" is arabic word which means in english God. The reason why the muslims forbits or became angry with nn-muslims using this word "allah"is because they (muslims) feel that this word should be sacred to them. This was an issue also in Malaysia couple of year back. The malaysian muslims forbits translation of our bible in malay language for the word allah as god. Eventually the malaysian christian leaders accept to use the word tuhan instead of allah when referring to god.

2) Maybe you might ask, what is the difference between muslim and islam? Islam is a type of religion whereas muslims is its followers, just like Christian is a religion (rather personally i don't think is a religion only but more than that, ie a way of life because all 'founders of any religion in this world is either 6 foot under the ground or going to be whereas ours is still living today, tomorrow and forever).

3) Personally I don't consider catholicism is Christianity at all because they have swayed from the teaching of the bible, example, using 'rosary' to pray, glorified mary, mother of Jesus than Jesus himself, when walking thru the church aisle, knee down facing mary before taking a sit at the church catheral etc........

Yep, I am from Indonesia and Indonesian bible use Allah refer to God.

But the discribtion of muslim God is different to Christian God.

For Example muslim don't believe Jesus God and say Christian have 3 God but muslim only have one God.

So to say muslim adore Abraham God is a Lie.


That is why I say catholic is Lie

If catholic want to worship muslim God, that is they problem but don't Lie say some thing that is not

 

[Jackson123]

How many religion do you think there is in this wide world? Every religion existed in this world claimed that their God is true God. As Christians, we know for a fact that there is only 1 true God and I think it is the work of the holy spirit to bear witness that Jesus if the only sons of only God.

Yep, this is Holy Spirit. I try to love catholic, that is why I try to tell the true to them, I hope It Will open their eyes and follow the true teaching of Jesus, because faith come from hearing, how people hear If No sound. So we have to make sound about the true teaching of Jesus. The faith base oN what their hear

And they hear unbiblical history that peter build the church of rome and pope is his successor

Let love them and make honest sound from biblical history, hope they change their faith to the bible

 

[Dan_473]

There is one body, all Christian is part of the body of Christ. But also bible give us a tool to identified If one part of the body or not. I am not expect perfect church, but at least claim or bible base teaching.

Water that we drink is not bactery free, but please don't drink sewage water.

Most church claim bible base, but there are differenses interpretation . But catholic admit Use tradition, magester claim peter was in rome to get reason to say pope is his successor so catholic the only church establish by Jesus, and a Lot more Lie doctrine that endanger her member.

About 11 years ago my catholic neigbors refused to Eat end up in the hospital, she say, Mary instruct her to do so

I believe this action base oN the catholic teaching that say Mary able to talk to catholic.

About muslim in the plan of salvation, I am not say vatican stupid, but vatican Lie

Vatican have history of Lie, Example sale forgiveness certificate. Not because vatican so stupid and believe If you pay her your sin forgiven, vatican smart enough to know It wasn't right, vatican knew It is Lie, but It did It for money.

So does the doctrine about muslim in the plan of salvation, It us Lie, I believe this doctrine is to SUPPORT one world religion as foundation If one world government

Again, I think you are starting with the assumption that God gives the right interpretation of the scriptures to each individual personally. And that's fine. It's probably good to be aware that one makes that assumption, though.

About Muslims, you are saying that Catholics lie, but they are really bad liars because they contradict themselves in the same document?

 

[Jackson123]

Again, I think you are starting with the assumption that God gives the right interpretation of the scriptures to each individual personally. And that's fine. It's probably good to be aware that one makes that assumption, though.

About Muslims, you are saying that Catholics lie, but they are really bad liars because they contradict themselves in the same document?

1 interpretation

I don't know If It is God give the right or not, but Holy Spirit give the guide to understand to every both y that Seem Him, I mean seriously Seem Him.

2. About Lie

If one say the only possibility to be save apart from catholic is If one don't know about catholic

Than say A)
muslim save because together with catholic adore the same God

That mean Lie

If catholic say B) only muslim that don't know catholic save, that different story

A inconsistent to 14
B consistent with 14

If you tell to Smith : new York is a big, than you tell to John , new York is small

Than either you Lie to Smith or john

 

[Jackson123]

Is islam profess Abraham God?

Abraham God teach Jesus is God

Muslim God say Jesus not God

Same name different person

In my town there is a man, his name is Jesus

Is he God?

No, he work in hadware store. But he is not God

Same name different person

To say he is God is Lie

 

[Dan_473]

In other word, If one ( muslim, Buddhist, Hindu etc) know that salvation only by catholic but refused to be catholic or exist from catholic Will not save




Than why vatican say muslim include in the plan of salvation because together with catholic adore the one and mercy God

Exactly! So do you believe they didn't remember what they wrote? Or that they are just really confused? Or maybe there is something they are saying that you are just not understanding?

 

[Dan_473]

My brother, I hope you not think I hate you. As a non perfect Christian I try to love you brother, that is why I try to show you how catholic teaching is unbiblical and inconsistent.

Amen! And I think much the same thing towards you, my brother! The difference is what I would like you to see is the assumptions and biases that you carry with you as you render judgments on Catholics.


Divisions in the body of Christ are a serious thing. What if you are excluding in your mind a set of Christians just because they start with different assumptions than you do?


When I asked you earlier if Catholics are Christians, you said no because they say Muslims are saved without confessing Christ.

When I asked you a very similar question, could a person who has never heard of Jesus go to heaven, you said you didn't know, if I remember right.

So by your standard, you would have to say that you don't know if you are a Christian or not.

Matthew 7: 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you.


This is all based on the logic of your answers, as I remember them.

 

[Dan_473]

1) The word "allah" is arabic word which means in english God. The reason why the muslims forbits or became angry with nn-muslims using this word "allah"is because they (muslims) feel that this word should be sacred to them. This was an issue also in Malaysia couple of year back. The malaysian muslims forbits translation of our bible in malay language for the word allah as god. Eventually the malaysian christian leaders accept to use the word tuhan instead of allah when referring to god.

That's interesting! In Indonesia, very similar language and situation, it looks like they regularly use Allah for God.

One example is if you go to this video from a mega church in Surabaya and jump time 12:35

(For non Indonesian speakers, that word "Allahku" means "my God".)

 

[Dan_473]

1 interpretation

I don't know If It is God give the right or not, but Holy Spirit give the guide to understand to every both y that Seem Him, I mean seriously Seem Him.

2. About Lie

If one say the only possibility to be save apart from catholic is If one don't know about catholic

Than say A)
muslim save because together with catholic adore the same God

That mean Lie

If catholic say B) only muslim that don't know catholic save, that different story

A inconsistent to 14
B consistent with 14

If you tell to Smith : new York is a big, than you tell to John , new York is small

Than either you Lie to Smith or john

I don't think there would be any real difference between the holy Spirit giving you the right interpretation and the holy Spirit guiding your understanding. So, do you believe that God gives you the right interpretation to the scriptures, and he gives it to you personally and directly as you read the Bible?


I think Catholics say there is no salvation apart from the church, which is the body of Christ.


Are you attempting to carefully lay out a syllogism? English grammar can be challenging!

Let's start with a basic statement:

A person who has never heard of the church may be saved.

Would you agree with that?

 

[Jackson123]

Exactly! So do you believe they didn't remember what they wrote? Or that they are just really confused? Or maybe there is something they are saying that you are just not understanding?

I believe they think people are stupid, they not confuse or stupid but they are liar, they know It is inconsistent, but people Will not read the whole story anyway.

 

[Jackson123]

I don't think there would be any real difference between the holy Spirit giving you the right interpretation and the holy Spirit guiding your understanding. So, do you believe that God gives you the right interpretation to the scriptures, and he gives it to you personally and directly as you read the Bible?


I think Catholics say there is no salvation apart from the church, which is the body of Christ.


Are you attempting to carefully lay out a syllogism? English grammar can be challenging!

Let's start with a basic statement:

A person who has never heard of the church may be saved.

Would you agree with that?

1 interpretation vs guidance

A. I interprate Bible, mean I use my ability to understand bible

B. Holy spirit guid me to understand bible, mean the credit is for the Holy Spirit not me

A I interprate

B. Holy spirit interprate for me

 

[Jackson123]

Amen! And I think much the same thing towards you, my brother! The difference is what I would like you to see is the assumptions and biases that you carry with you as you render judgments on Catholics.
G

Divisions in the body of Christ are a serious thing. What if you are excluding in your mind a set of Christians just because they start with different assumptions than you do?


When I asked you earlier if Catholics are Christians, you said no because they say Muslims are saved without confessing Christ.

When I asked you a very similar question, could a person who has never heard of Jesus go to heaven, you said you didn't know, if I remember right.

So by your standard, you would have to say that you don't know if you are a Christian or not.

Matthew 7: 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you.


This is all based on the logic of your answers, as I remember them.

My brother, I don't know everything about Christian, thoug I am Christian all my life.

My church never talk About salvation without confessing Christ.

But like I say, there are a verse in the bible talk about People that are never hear the gospel Will have different judgement, but I don't know If It mean there is posibility for save.

Special judgement can be lighter sentence, but not go to heaven, or It may go to heaven, I don't know.

But I believe I am Christian, because I believe in Jesus

 

[Jackson123]

person who has never heard of the church may be saved.

You mean a person never hear about Jesus?

I don't know

But a person never hear about church as long as believe in Jesus Will save.

 

[Dan_473]

I believe they think people are stupid, they not confuse or stupid but they are liar, they know It is inconsistent, but people Will not read the whole story anyway.

I see. In your view, the Catholic leaders who wrote documents like lumen gentium know they are lying and they are evil.


I don't think it's a good idea to project your unwillingness to read the whole story onto other people. Many people have read the whole story and have decided to remain with or join the Catholic Church.