Not By Works

[mailmandan]

verse 26 is absolutely clear; the man when he pleaded/besought/begged/implored with the Master did not ask to have his debt forgiven. he begged for patience, saying he would pay it back.

Good point. The wicked servant did not ask his master to forgive his debt, but instead, said he would pay back his debt.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OSAS doesn't know the least thing about living faith. It teaches that we may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life. OSAS wants to show us faith without works, but Righteousness by Faith agrees with James..it's demonstrated by works.

Dude I am sick of your slander.

OSAS teaches no such thing, Stop listing to your pastor or whoever taught you these false truths, and start listening to people who actually hold to the faith that your attacking

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Grace, properly understood, is that by which we go unto the perfection Jesus, the Word, commands. Demons have influenced humans to think of it as a license for sin. Grace is how one goes from the sinful nature to the fruit of the Spirit. "If anyone speaks, as oracles of God." 1 Peter 4:11. Because mere humans break this part of God's law too, they incorporate fallen thinking with Jesus and banter stupidity back and forth, multiplying the unfaithful among men. Where is the one who can focus on what God says?

"Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps: #1“He committed no sin, #2 and no deceit was found in His mouth.” #3When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate; #4when He suffered, He made no threats, #5 but entrusted Himself to Him who judges justly. He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we being dead to sin would live to righteousness. “By His stripes you are healed.” For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:21b-25

As with the rest of the Bible, no human can do it by his own effort. Not even close. The power of God must change him. Grace changes the ungodly into godly. It takes a "soulish" person and transforms him into a spiritual one who has laid down his life and personal ambition, to walk in the divine Way of the Kingdom of God. The Christian religion rejected this. Harlot.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Guess you missed that part about "...in Christ's power..." huh?

I finally figured it out...You OSAS folks think salvation grants divine status...that we become Omnipresent, right?

OSAS essentially says I can simultaneously walk further and further away from God while remaining safe and secure in the palm of His hand.

so you believe in christ's power

just not christ's power to keep his children from falling. ad failing to live up to the God which can be trusted?

this really makes no sense.

either you believe in Gods power or you do not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Small wonder a works to earn, and or maintain Salvation guy, doesn't see THIS as hateful writings against Jewish people:

On the Jews and Their Lies[edit]
Main article: On the Jews and Their Lies
In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[14] They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine."[15] The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."[16] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[17] afforded no legal protection,[18] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[19] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".[20] Luther claims that Jewish history was "assailed by much heresy", and that Christ swept away the Jewish heresy and goes on to do so, "as it still does daily before our eyes." He stigmatizes Jewish Prayer as being "blasphemous" and a lie, and vilifies Jews in general as being spiritually "blind" and "surely possessed by all devils." Luther has a special spiritual problem with Jewish circumcision.[21][self-published source?][22] The full context in which Martin Luther advocated that Jews be slain in On the Jews and Their Lies is as follows in Luther's own words:

There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses - namely, that God has struck [the Jews] with 'madness and blindness and confusion of mind' [Deuteronomy 28:28]. So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them.[23]​

its sad, Hitler used Luther's writings in his war against the jews. He prety much followed the book word for word.

 

[mailmandan]

well, Jesus also has it that He doesn't lose any of those the Father gives Him. that there was only a remnant shows that His word is also true, that the Gate is narrow & few find it. not everyone who looks Christian, is - and i wouldn't doubt that some who don't look like believers, are. we shouldn't judge by appearance.

Amen! I'm sure that Judas Iscariot looked like the real deal to the remaining 11 disciples, yet Jesus knew his heart and said he is a devil! (John 6:70-71) I have known people in the past who have professed to be Christians and by outward appearance looked like the real deal, yet later, their hearts were exposed to show otherwise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can not be a Sheppard without having sheep

amen, and God says if one lost sheep strays he leaves the flock to go get the one who left. And when he finds him, his sheep knows his voice and follows

 

[walknlight]

Small wonder a works to earn, and or maintain Salvation guy, doesn't see THIS as hateful writings against Jewish people:

On the Jews and Their Lies[edit]
Main article: On the Jews and Their Lies
In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[14] They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine."[15] The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."[16] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[17] afforded no legal protection,[18] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[19] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".[20] Luther claims that Jewish history was "assailed by much heresy", and that Christ swept away the Jewish heresy and goes on to do so, "as it still does daily before our eyes." He stigmatizes Jewish Prayer as being "blasphemous" and a lie, and vilifies Jews in general as being spiritually "blind" and "surely possessed by all devils." Luther has a special spiritual problem with Jewish circumcision.[21][self-published source?][22] The full context in which Martin Luther advocated that Jews be slain in On the Jews and Their Lies is as follows in Luther's own words:

There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses - namely, that God has struck [the Jews] with 'madness and blindness and confusion of mind' [Deuteronomy 28:28]. So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them.[23]​

Rom 11:11 I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make Israel jealous.
Rom 11:12 Now if their transgression means riches for the world and their defeat means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full restoration bring?
Rom 11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Seeing that I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
Rom 11:14 if somehow I could provoke my people to jealousy and save some of them.

 

[Judges1318]

Thanks, but I didn't not ask for an explanation, a point was made, then you made an attempt to explain it away.

The verse you shared did not show how a person can trust in Christ at the same time they don't trust in Christ.
Remember, believing in Christ means trusting in Christ.
I think that would clear up a lot of misguided doctrines in the church if people understood this.

 

[Judges1318]

i believe in the security of all who belong to Christ, eternally

I do too.
You won't get eternal security anywhere else but in Christ.
That's why we should continue to stay in that security and not stop trusting in Him.

24 ...see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

27...remain in him.

28 And now, dear children, continue in him...

1 John 2

 

[Judges1318]

Thank God I am kept by God and not I keep God.

You stay in His keeping power by keeping the message of the gospel you heard in the beginning in your heart.

 

[John146]

I do too.
You won't get eternal security anywhere else but in Christ.
That's why we should continue to stay in that security and not stop trusting in Him.

24 ...see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

27...remain in him.

28 And now, dear children, continue in him...

1 John 2

Why doesn’t Paul ever mention braking the seal and losing the Holy Spirit? Why doesn’t he ever say that one is sealed unto the day of redemption unless.....? Why doesn’t he warn about losing the imputed righteousness of Christ? 1 Corinthians 15:2 is not the answer, btw.

 

[Judges1318]

Why doesn’t Paul ever mention braking the seal and losing the Holy Spirit? Why doesn’t he ever say that one is sealed unto the day of redemption unless.....? Why doesn’t he warn about losing the imputed righteousness of Christ? 1 Corinthians 15:2 is not the answer, btw.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." - Romans 11:17-22

Believing branches that are broken off no longer "partakest of the root and the fatness of the olive tree".
Except in the new osas, of course.
The old osas says they won't ever be cut out in the first place.
Both osas doctrines lose on this one.

 

[walknlight]

The verse you shared did not show how a person can trust in Christ at the same time they don't trust in Christ.
Remember, believing in Christ means trusting in Christ.
I think that would clear up a lot of misguided doctrines in the church if people understood this.

The Lord uses (among many) another analogy:
1Pet 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1Pet 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pet 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

What baby doesn't stumble (I.e sin, miss the mark, waver) when learning to walk?

He says this also:
1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Cor 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

THERE IS A GROWTH PROCESS IN CHRIST YESHUA, its called SANCTIFICATION
as flesh and blood beings we will stumble.
1John 1:8 If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The HOLY Spirit we let us know of our short coming, this is why we have:

1John 1:9 But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.

Again:

Jude 1:22 And have mercy on those who waver;
Jude 1:23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; have mercy on others, coupled with a fear of God, hating even the clothes stained by the flesh.

Don't judge.... to condemn

God Bless......

 

[Judges1318]

1 Corinthians 15:2 is not the answer, btw.

Actually, it's a good answer.

"ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you" - 1 Corinthians 15:2

The new osas says you are still saved even if you don't keep in memory the gospel that they heard.
And the old osas says truly saved people always keep the gospel in memory. So much for Romans 11:17-22.

 

[Judges1318]

Jude 1:22 And have mercy on those who waver;
Jude 1:23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; have mercy on others, coupled with a fear of God, hating even the clothes stained by the flesh.

Don't judge.... to condemn

God Bless......

The important thing is you recognize that we have to 'judge' who and what has the stain of the flesh.
And that's all I've been saying.
We have a right and a responsibility to discern who is not living in accordance with the truth.
I have the Biblical right to consider someone a brother/sister or not.
That's not eternally condemning them.
That's discerning their status concerning the body of Christ, just as the Bible says we are to do.

 

[walknlight]

The important thing is you recognize that we have to 'judge' who and what has the stain of the flesh.

I do recognize your fruit.

 

[John146]

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." - Romans 11:17-22

Believing branches that are broken off no longer "partakest of the root and the fatness of the olive tree".
Except in the new osas, of course.
The old osas says they won't ever be cut out in the first place.
Both osas doctrines lose on this one.

The context is Gentile nations. You violate the passage by making this to individual believers being cut out of the body of Christ. There’s coming a time when Gentiles stop believing the gospel and the fullness of the Gentiles are come in. At that point, the Lord will cut them off and turn His attention once more to the nation of Israel and bring salvation to them.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

 

[Judges1318]

The context is Gentile nations. You violate the passage by making this to individual believers being cut out of the body of Christ. There’s coming a time when Gentiles stop believing the gospel and the fullness of the Gentiles are come in. At that point, the Lord will cut them off and turn His attention once more to the nation of Israel and bring salvation to them.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

How do gentiles as a whole get cut out of the tree because of not continuing in His kindness in faith except that the individual gentiles themselves are not continuing in His kindness?

 

[John146]

How do gentiles as a whole get cut out of the tree because of not continuing in His kindness in faith except that the individual gentiles themselves are not continuing in His kindness?

Gentiles will be cut off when the fullness has come in, when God sees that the Gentiles are no longer believing the gospel. Why continue to reap when there’s nothing left to reap?

Continuing in his kindness?