There are non-believers who demonstrate love , patience and kindness...? Is it necessary to be a Christian to be kind and do God's will?

[Blain]

I wonder about the person who is mean and has no kindness but understands that Christ forgives and can cleanse him, wants Christ to do that for him, but doesn't want to be loving or kind? Can this person be cleansed from the sin he loves and means to keep?

I know a person who lived next door to a cartain man and this man did whatever he pleased he would sin and sin and say it's ok if I ask God to forgive me then i'm good and would just keep doing it intentionally.
Such a person has the wrong idea about grace it isn't something to take advantage of. as for a person who is mean and has no kindness but is aware of Christs forgiveness and wants him to forgive him but just keeps being mean and unkind well I believe Jesus gave it best.

The Sheep and the Goats
…43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’…

 

[JamOn]

A judge doesn't weigh up how many good things a person has done when they are presented in court over a crime they committed, they still have to pay the penalty for the crime. Their good works aren't even considered.

In a sense of man laws, though I’m not completely convinced on the crime punishment being at different levels of misery, though I could be mistaken haven’t studied if that theory has any weight in scripture

In human law someone who kills a 100 people will probably serve more time than 1 murder.
Or like is a 100 good deeds deemed better than one good deed in man’s eyes, sometimes it is among people. like the PK ripper or something like that the man who snowed a lot of people with kindness and good deeds, he was a park ranger volunteer scout leader went to church all sorts of good things but a cold hard killer underneath.

 

[Blik]

I do not believe an understanding of Christian doctrines is necessary for salvation. There is a lot of debate on the doctrines. Some of the doctrines go above a person's head, and we should not judge them for not being too bright. I find that others memorized the doctrines so much, to the point of indoctrination, that it does not count as belief.

When you say doctrines, do you mean the true doctrines of the Lord or do you include the man made doctrines the church has adopted? As I have devoted so much of my time to study of scripture and the history of the church I find so many doctrines are made simply to separate gentiles and Jews, not to follow the Lord.

It seems to me the true doctrines are very simple. It is like a child saying yes Lord, you created me and I belong to you, I trust you and will do what you tell me to do.

 

[Blik]

I know a person who lived next door to a cartain man and this man did whatever he pleased he would sin and sin and say it's ok if I ask God to forgive me then i'm good and would just keep doing it intentionally.
Such a person has the wrong idea about grace it isn't something to take advantage of. as for a person who is mean and has no kindness but is aware of Christs forgiveness and wants him to forgive him but just keeps being mean and unkind well I believe Jesus gave it best.

The Sheep and the Goats
…43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’…

Thank you!

 

[Blain]

When you say doctrines, do you mean the true doctrines of the Lord or do you include the man made doctrines the church has adopted? As I have devoted so much of my time to study of scripture and the history of the church I find so many doctrines are made simply to separate gentiles and Jews, not to follow the Lord.

It seems to me the true doctrines are very simple. It is like a child saying yes Lord, you created me and I belong to you, I trust you and will do what you tell me to do.

I'm thinking she is talking about which doctrine you believe is true within the church. You know like the rapture debate which is true pre mid or post? But regardless of which doctrine you think the rapture will happen what saves you is what it is in your heart

 

[JamOn]

The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?

I think so because you may meet someone who does good deeds yet doesn’t connect with Christianity until some time later years maybe after meeting that person and a light bulb comes on upon looking at their past experiences and reactions and actions, so in that instant God is always at work.

 

[JamOn]

To get to the fruit stage a seed is needed first, some are fast producers some are not yet the fruit is what counts

 

[TheIndianGirl]

When you say doctrines, do you mean the true doctrines of the Lord or do you include the man made doctrines the church has adopted? As I have devoted so much of my time to study of scripture and the history of the church I find so many doctrines are made simply to separate gentiles and Jews, not to follow the Lord.

It seems to me the true doctrines are very simple. It is like a child saying yes Lord, you created me and I belong to you, I trust you and will do what you tell me to do.

I agree with the bold, highlighted part. There are other doctrines, such as understanding the Trinity (even a lot of mature Christians do not grasp this), meaning of resurrection, original sin, virgin birth, etc, that I do not believe are necessary in understanding to obtain salvation.

 

[JohnR7]

he then lashed out on me saying how defending the enemy is the same as being with them

People like to accuse others of what they are guilty of. In psychology this is known as projecting. When people judge others they are really only judging themselves. Often they tell on themselves. Otherwise we would not know that about them. "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Titus 1:15)

 

[Kim82]

but doesn't want to be loving or kind? Can this person be cleansed from the sin he loves and means to keep?

Its rough, especially when you are on the receiving end of these people's unkindness.

I have found myself questioning such persons salvation.

But then I remember when Jesus said, he without sin cast the first stone and I have to hang my head in shame.

Jesus said let the wheat and the tares grow together, and in the end He will separate us. "lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them" Matthew 13:24-30

This is so because both the unsaved and saved look similar at times.

And Jesus also gave the example of the two men who prayed. One thought he was doing great while the other said, Lord be merciful to me a sinner. And we know how that parable ends.

So it's just helpful to keep bearing in mind, that we are saved by grace, and not because we behave better than someone else.

 

[Jackson123]

Some people who do good things also believe in karma. Some are empathetic, and get good “feelings” by being charitable. Others enjoy the attention they receive. You can’t be a Christian without being kind, but just because one is kind, it doesn’t mean they have been spiritually reborn. It is a grafting into Christ that saves us. He is the Vine, we are the branches. We are saved because we are in Him, not because of our works. The branches that produce more fruit may be rewarded but there is more to salvation than good deeds.

Salvation not by work, but salvation produce work

In other word if one say he is save but not change and not do good work, he may lie

If Jesus in us, He will produce fruit or loving work for us, He not us but He in us that produce through us


John 15

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Verse 5 .....He that abide in Me .........bear much fruit

Verse 6 not abide ..........cast them into fire/hell

Not because salvation by work, but salvation produce loving work

Faith > produce salvation + loving work

 

[massorite]

The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?

There is no such a thing as a true love outside of the love of Christ and when a believer accepts Christ and is baptized the Love that only Christ can give is given to the believer. It is a love that can not be comprehended by anyone who doesn't know Christ. There are no such a thing as a nonbeliever being about to have the love of Christ without recieving that Love from Christ are showing a false or shallow love' Its only a surface love. Not a true love that goes down to the bones.
Besides it doesn't matter how much love a person shows because without accepting Christ any love shown to anyone is for not and it won't get them into heaven without Christ in their lives.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

I do not believe works save. I believe God will be merciful to even rapists, paedophiles, you name it, etc. We have to remember that both men who were crucified with Jesus mocked Jesus, but a few hours later one of them became a believer. I think if a person seeks God even in his final most desperate moments God/Jesus will reveal himself in whatever way He chooses and the person will surrender to God. I do not think we have know all the details about the relationship between God and an individual, since a God is a personal God.

The example I gave earlier is too narrow....I meant to say God will be merciful to all who surrender to God/Jesus, even in their final moments, including as noted above rapists, paedophiles, etc., but also to all the different types of individuals listed by Paul (fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, transgenders, the wicked, etc.)

 

[Jackson123]

The example I gave earlier is too narrow....I meant to say God will be merciful to all who surrender to God/Jesus, even in their final moments, including as noted above rapists, paedophiles, etc., but also to all the different types of individuals listed by Paul (fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, transgenders, the wicked, etc.)

If they repent

 

[Blik]

I'm thinking she is talking about which doctrine you believe is true within the church. You know like the rapture debate which is true pre mid or post? But regardless of which doctrine you think the rapture will happen what saves you is what it is in your heart

No Blain. I am truly a rebel. I am speaking such doctrines as the church deciding that they have to change Passover, and deciding against some scripture based on it is too Jewish rather than on searching for truth. I am truly a rebel. I'm retired, a widow and I spend my time with scripture and early Hebrew history and I want the truth. I'm beginning to feel like an outcast--it would be so nice to just follow. I'm so old fashioned that I search for the way the first Christians worshiped, it was called The Way. It only lasted 500 years. The organized church had council meetings and decided they had the power to make decisions about God rather than following God.

Your post is from your speaking with the Lord, I so appreciate it.

 

[Blain]

I think so because you may meet someone who does good deeds yet doesn’t connect with Christianity until some time later years maybe after meeting that person so in that instant God is always at work.

J

No Blain. I am truly a rebel. I am speaking such doctrines as the church deciding that they have to change Passover, and deciding against some scripture based on it is too Jewish rather than on searching for truth. I am truly a rebel. I'm retired, a widow and I spend my time with scripture and early Hebrew history and I want the truth. I'm beginning to feel like an outcast--it would be so nice to just follow. I'm so old fashioned that I search for the way the first Christians worshiped, it was called The Way. It only lasted 500 years. The organized church had council meetings and decided they had the power to make decisions about God rather than following God.

Your post is from your speaking with the Lord, I so appreciate it.

Wow... Honestly I am impressed I think I would love to have bible studies and discussions with you. Don't ever change keep being a rebel and continue on the path you are on stay old fashioned and seek the old ways

 

[chanchuinchoy]

I've experienced what you said. Well, if you ask me, i would say let these so called 'christians' be revived again by fellow evangelist or let our god Lod deal with them when time comes. Just ignore them and do not be discouraged yourself.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Is it necessary to be a Christian to do God's will?

Hello Scarlett, I think that you've asked some excellent, thought-provoking questions in your OP, but I'd like to start with this one from your OP title, "is it necessary to be a Christian to do God's will?"

The answer is yes, you ~must~ be a believer, because only a true believer (a true Christian) knows God.

Non-Christians and CINO's (Christians In Name Only) do not know God, nor does He know them .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23; John 17:3, and as a result, it is impossible for them to either know or to do His will (the very fact that they 'are' non-Christians/CINO means that they neither know nor do His will, that they have, in fact, been disobeying Him from the get-g0).

Here is the Apostle Paul's description of some of the things that characterize Christians (those who are spiritual) as well some of the things that characterize those who are not, who are "natural" men/women instead.

1 Corinthians 2​

12 We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,​

13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.​

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.​

15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.​

16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.​

God bless you!

~Deut

1 Corinthians 1​

18 The word of the Cross is ~foolishness~ to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.​

​

 

[Ella85]

Is it not faith that God wants? To love Him?

If you had a child that was kind and loving to others but not you, how would react to this?

The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The fruit of the Holy Spirit are love, gentleness, patience, longsuffering and many other things. Yet, there are non Christians whom I have observed practicing this better than me or say some Christians. That makes me wonder what is the role of accepting Christ into our lives or becoming Christians when we don't have the fruits and others have it. Aren't they doing better than us then? Why be Christians? Doesn't the will of God include loving others? And if they do it as non Christians , what is wrong in that..?

Doing good doesn't prevent sin. You still need a Savior for sin. Of course nonbelievers can be good as defined within the moral law that God has evident in all of our hearts. But there is also free will to resist the moral law. And once this occurs, we have no definition of what good is. We only have mans opinion of right and wrong. Which what is called good to one group is evil to another.