Not By Works
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The bondage of the law is not the necessity to fulfill it, but rather the power of the law to hold you in the bondage to sin.:
"the power of sin is the law." - 1 Corinthians 15:56
"5For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death." - Romans 7:5
"sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting." - Romans 7:8
Law arouses sin in the natural person, and so we were in bondage to the law that way. But in Christ we are released from the power of the law to do that and are now set free to actually 'keep' the law and bear fruit for God.
"4 ...you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." - Romans 7:4
"31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." - Romans 3:31
"the power of sin is the law." - 1 Corinthians 15:56
"5For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death." - Romans 7:5
"sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting." - Romans 7:8
Law arouses sin in the natural person, and so we were in bondage to the law that way. But in Christ we are released from the power of the law to do that and are now set free to actually 'keep' the law and bear fruit for God.
"4 ...you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." - Romans 7:4
"31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." - Romans 3:31
Of course it's done.
It does not have to be repeated like it did under the old system.
That's the point being made in Hebrews.
One time for all time has nothing to do with you not being able to lose it through unbelief.
The mistake you make is to say that the ongoing results of the completed action continue past the present and into the future and can not be stopped.
But the definition of the Perfect tense says the ongoing results continue up to the present, not into the future and not stopping.
If you can't accept that I don't know what else to tell you.
Facts are facts. The Perfect tense means what it means.
You can't change it's definition to suit a doctrinal preference.
Are you going to just continue to turn a blind eye to the actual definition of the Perfect tense?
It does not have to be repeated like it did under the old system.
That's the point being made in Hebrews.
One time for all time has nothing to do with you not being able to lose it through unbelief.
The mistake you make is to say that the ongoing results of the completed action continue past the present and into the future and can not be stopped.
But the definition of the Perfect tense says the ongoing results continue up to the present, not into the future and not stopping.
If you can't accept that I don't know what else to tell you.
Facts are facts. The Perfect tense means what it means.
You can't change it's definition to suit a doctrinal preference.
Are you going to just continue to turn a blind eye to the actual definition of the Perfect tense?
The power of the law to make us sin has ended.
That is what it means to no longer be 'under the law'. (There are other meanings too, but let's not complicate the discussion).
But the church tells us we are no longer under the law in that we don't have to do anything it says, and any resemble of what it says to do and what the New Testament says means nothing.
But that is not what 'no longer being under the law' means.
That is what it means to no longer be 'under the law'. (There are other meanings too, but let's not complicate the discussion).
But the church tells us we are no longer under the law in that we don't have to do anything it says, and any resemble of what it says to do and what the New Testament says means nothing.
But that is not what 'no longer being under the law' means.
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I will go with the people who have studied Koine Greek, so really I am not on my own but you are.
One minute it is too much sin, next minute the issue is stop believing, then it is no fruit... then it is not fulfilling the law.
You are so desperate to prove NOSAS................. but your desperation and inconsistency speaks volumes.
One minute it is too much sin, next minute the issue is stop believing, then it is no fruit... then it is not fulfilling the law.
You are so desperate to prove NOSAS................. but your desperation and inconsistency speaks volumes.
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the law never made us sin. that would make The Lawgiver a tempter.
notice what is the operative actor in verses 8, 9 and 11. three times: it is sin that wrought evil, sin that deceived, sin that murdered.
not the law. the law is holy, just and goof: 3 descriptors each countermanding what you said.
the power of the law is to reveal sin. sin is empowered by the law to steal, kill and destroy - the entering in by any other way.
it is the power of sin that is removed from those who have died with Christ, to be raised uncorrupted & incorruptible. the power of sin is the law, and it is sin through which the commandment became death.
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(Romans 7:8-12)
i hardly think you have something to teach me about Romans 7 if you have to misquote it to do so. notice what is the operative actor in verses 8, 9 and 11. three times: it is sin that wrought evil, sin that deceived, sin that murdered.
not the law. the law is holy, just and goof: 3 descriptors each countermanding what you said.
the power of the law is to reveal sin. sin is empowered by the law to steal, kill and destroy - the entering in by any other way.
it is the power of sin that is removed from those who have died with Christ, to be raised uncorrupted & incorruptible. the power of sin is the law, and it is sin through which the commandment became death.
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YOU HAVE GOT IT WRONG. The DIFFERENCE IS MOTIVE.
Keeping the LAW is nothing more than a human effort to be right with GOD.
OBEDIENCE is an act of AGAPE LOVE, that exact same kind of LOVE that comes out of us, that GOD had the Holy Spirit pour HIS LOVE directly into out Heart or Human Spirit, Rom. 5:5. THE MOTIVE is self-sacrificial LOVE For GOD and OTHERS, where we do what pleases them purely out of AGAPE LOVE, because WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO. There is NO burden, when it is something that we WANT TO DO BECAUSE WE AGAPE LOVE THE LORD.
It is not THAT YOU KEEP THE LAW, that GOD DESIRES, BECAUSE THAT IS FILTHY RAGS.
IT IS WHY YOU KEEP THE LAW, THE ACTUAL MOTIVE BEHIND THE DEED.
HERE IS PROOF THAT GOD SEEKS THE PURE MOTIVE OF AGAPE LOVE, BY EXAMINING THE HEART OF MAN.
Psalm 51:17 (ESV)
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
1 Chronicles 28:9 (ESV)
9 “And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. {HE understands that and knows every thought, and decision from before time began, therefore HE WROTE OUR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.}
If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever. [{.HE knows the names of those who will forsake HIM, BEFORE TIME BEGAN. You cannot FOOL GOD by your decision. Just because HE gave you the freedom to CHOOSE, does not MEAN you can OVER-RIDE the Omniscience (ALL KNOWING) Nature of GOD. HE KNOWS WHO WILL FORSAKE HIM, before HE WROTE the BOOK OF LIFE.}]
Romans 8:27-30 (HCSB)
27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.
Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
23 I will kill her children with the plague. Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
I do not normally quote the APOCRYPHA, but I found an unusual quote there, that I would like to share with you.
Sirach 42:18-22 (NRSV)
18 He searches out the abyss and the human heart; he understands their innermost secrets. For the Most High knows all that may be known; he sees from of old the things that are to come.
19 He discloses what has been and what is to be, and he reveals the traces of hidden things.
20 No thought escapes him, and nothing is hidden from him.
21 He has set in order the splendors of his wisdom; he is from all eternity one and the same. Nothing can be added or taken away, and he needs no one to be his counselor.
22 How desirable are all his works, and how sparkling they are to see!
THIS GUY that WROTE Sirach, CERTAINLY Understood GOD, and OSAS.
But ONE thing surprised me, in the first part of verse 18, HE even Searches the ABYSS, and every thought that Demons who are housed there, as GOD does know their every thought in the ABYSS. HIS Omniscience, KNOWS ALL, and the human race, Cannot hide anything from HIM, because HE KNOWS IT ALL from the BEGINNING OF TIME ITSELF.
How do you keep the Law when Paul stated those in Christ are dead and buried to the Law. The Law is bondage, this is what the werkers fail to understand.
(Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar)
(Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.)
(Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.)
I'm sure the werkers can spin the above to mean exactly the opposite of what it plainly says.
The werkers are effectively adulterers, claiming to be married to Christ while still lusting over Moses' Law.
(Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?)
(Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God)
(Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar)
(Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.)
(Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.)
I'm sure the werkers can spin the above to mean exactly the opposite of what it plainly says.
The werkers are effectively adulterers, claiming to be married to Christ while still lusting over Moses' Law.
(Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?)
(Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God)
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Amen! There is only sheep and goats, wheat and tares. There are no shoats or whares.
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That's because he's not talking to ex-believers.
The promises are for those who presently believe, not for those who never believed or who have stop believing.
"47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes (present tense) has eternal life." - John 6:47
Those are the plain words of Jesus in the Bible about who has eternal life. And I will stick with them.
The promises are for those who presently believe, not for those who never believed or who have stop believing.
"47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes (present tense) has eternal life." - John 6:47
Those are the plain words of Jesus in the Bible about who has eternal life. And I will stick with them.