Not By Works

[gb9]

Why the hostility?

Scripture was quoted. Do you have a problem with the scriptures that say the same things we are saying?

I sense this is why a lot of christians stop reading their Bibles. Every so often those problem verses disturb their comfort zones.

Just my opinion.

I am hostel against anything that goes against this- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

lordship salvation , which is what the member here judges pushes, says that salvation by belief is demonstrated by good works and/or lack of sin.

that allows one to judge by appearance , and that is garbage, as we are not to judge.

and, as far as the" problem verses", no verses are problem verses if one knows whole Bible, which I do.

individual, out of context verses mean nothing to me, there are over 33.000 of them in the Bible, and they lose their meaning when broken into 30,000 pieces .

 

[Judges1318]

If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.

Do you think you can get the others to understand this?
All they can see if self righteousness in what you said.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you think you can get the others to understand this?
All they can see if self righteousness in what you said.

Who doesn't understand it?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

People who attend the church of Christ will not hesitate to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a proof text that we are saved by water baptism, but I'm yet to hear you make that claim.

I do not attend the church of Christ.

Now regarding this baptism salvation question.

I remember not having a good conscience about it early on in my faith. I came to believe the gospel through reading the Bible and I sensed a change in my life, but all those verses regarding baptism kept pricking at my heart (I had not been water baptized yet).

Finally, I got water baptized in an Independent Baptist Church, and my conscience has been cleared of this issue ever since. Those verses no longer pose an issue when I read them now.

Make of this what you will.

I would encourage any new believer if he has not been water baptized to do so.

Is this a salvation issue? Hard to say.

But in order to be in good conscience before God I would say it is required.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

and, as far as the" problem verses", no verses are problem verses if one knows whole Bible, which I do.

individual, out of context verses mean nothing to me, there are over 33.000 of them in the Bible, and they lose their meaning when broken into 30,000 pieces .

Fair enough.

 

[Phoneman-777]

yes, Trust

If you trust something will it not remain in you?

If you do not really trust in anything, it may stay for awhile. But it will fade. And you either have religion which you are using for some selfish thing, or you will walk away

Good gravy, EG, can not hear what you are saying? A thing can't stay with you unless it's already with you! There's no in between. Either one is in love or not in love, employed or unemployed, pregnant or not pregnant, hungry or not hungry, trusting in a thing or not trusting in a thing.

The very fact that John says if it remains in us is proof positive that it's possible to cease from remaining in us - but because John tells us the consequence of it not remaining in us is that we cease to walk with God - spiritual death - OSAS has no choice but to actively deny the plain, unavoidable, undeniable but unwelcome logic of John's words.

 

[mailmandan]

I do not attend the church of Christ.

Now regarding this baptism salvation question.

I remember not having a good conscience about it early on in my faith. I came to believe the gospel through reading the Bible and I sensed a change in my life, but all those verses regarding baptism kept pricking at my heart (I had not been water baptized yet).

Finally, I got water baptized in an Independent Baptist Church, and my conscience has been cleared of this issue every since. Those verses no longer pose an issue when I read them now.

Make of this what you will.

I would encourage any new believer if he has not been water baptized to do so.

Is this a salvation issue? Hard to say.

But in order to be in good conscience before God I would say it is required.

I was also baptized in an Independent Baptist Church. I came to believe the gospel through reading the Bible on a Saturday night, but was not water baptized until Sunday morning. I had no doubt that I was saved through faith in Christ prior to receiving water baptism and I could not wait to get water baptized on Sunday morning! I gave about a 5 minute testimony on how I came to faith in Christ just before getting water baptized on that Sunday morning.

Here is how I understand 1 Peter 3:21: When Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, he uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that only the righteous (Noah and his family) were dry and safe in the ARK. In contrast, only the wicked came in contact with the water and they all perished. Some would argue that getting water baptized gave them a good conscience while others would say what is symbolized in water baptism did. By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.

 

[Phoneman-777]

OSAS is based on living faith dude not on a dead faith. People who have dead faith have no part with us,
So yes, you did judge us, and you judged us falsly

When are you going to show LIVING faith in God and his work. and stop trusting in your own work, which by defenition is a dead faith in God?

Sorry, but ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED in it's very name implies that faith's failure to produce good works doesn't affect salvation - John calls that dead faith.

But, OSAS argues, "True faith does produce good works!" - and then proceeds to justify the absence of them....that's called "double-talk". I appreciate the discussion though, thank you very much

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I was also baptized in an Indecent Baptist Church. I came to believe the gospel through reading the Bible on a Saturday night, but was not water baptized until Sunday morning. I had no doubt that I was saved through faith in Christ prior to receiving water baptism and I could not wait to get water baptized.

Thanks for sharing that.

And that was a good explanation you provided.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

View attachment 214254

So I am assuming by the picture you post that trusting in God is not a really smart thing to do?

Why would you relate that to trusting in God. are you trying to hide something?

Good gravy, EG, can not hear what you are saying? A thing can't stay with you unless it's already with you! There's no in between. Either one is in love or not in love, employed or unemployed, pregnant or not pregnant, hungry or not hungry, trusting in a thing or not trusting in a thing.

The very fact that John says if it remains in us is proof positive that it's possible to cease from remaining in us - but because John tells us the consequence of it not remaining in us is that we cease to walk with God - spiritual death - OSAS has no choice but to actively deny the plain, unavoidable, undeniable but unwelcome logic of John's words.

1. John tells us those who left due to lack of faith was never of us. In fact he said they departed to prove they were not if us, if they were of us, they NEVER would have left.
2. You misunderstood what I said, Can you please try again? I said, we do not lose faith UNLESS a person fails us SINCE God will never fail us, the only way we would walk away totally faithless is IF we never had true faith to begin with, And if you read number 1, I think John agrees with me.
3. You say I deny Johns words. Yet if we look at John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6, and all the times John tells us we HAVE eternal life based on trusting in him, Have assed from death to life and will not come under judgment, have rivers of living waters flowing to eternal life, Food which will never die, in which one who eats will NEVER HUNGER, NEVER THIRST, NEVER DIE, LIVE FOREVER, AND given his assurance he WILL RAISE THEM ON THE LAST DAY, And if you go to his epistle. you will see he tells us we can KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and not the conditional life that you preach. you see it is actually you who deny the words of John.

Good luck trying to be saved by the work of righteousness which you do, are doing or will do. and in doing so rejecting Gods mercy.

 

[Phoneman-777]

So you are trying to earn God’s grace through obedience rather than through faith. On another note the myth that OSAS is a license to sin is exactly that, a myth.

Pretty sure I was clear that "trying to earn salvation" is that Right Ditch of Legalism, which Jesus Himself says is a myth in Luke 17:10 ( "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.") '

Look, I used to think like you so I know how quickly the threat level meter pegs whenever the word "works" rears it's perceived ugly head. It threatens the security that trust in OSAS provides...it wasn't until I placed my trust in Jesus' power to deliver me from temptation that I began to see what real victory can be like.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, but ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED in it's very name implies that faith's failure to produce good works doesn't affect salvation - John calls that dead faith.

Bull, I am sorry but I am calling you out. because you are outright bearing false witness, and you need to repent. Because your eyes and your mind is closed to what people believe and what people are saying. You are part of the problem my friend, not the solution.

Eternal life is based on a LIVING FAITH, a LIVING FAITH does not sit idle. IT WORKS. BECAUSE IT IS LIVING (see Heb 11)

But, OSAS argues, "True faith does produce good works!" - and then proceeds to justify the absence of them....that's called "double-talk". I appreciate the discussion though, thank you very much

Who justifies the absence of them?

Its sad you have to come to the point you have to resort to lies and slander of people because you do not like what they believe, Does this help you continue in your own type of faith? Because it should show you how your faith must be weak, so weak you must lie about others in order to convince yoursef your right and they are wrong.

If a person claims to have faith, Yet has NO WORK, can that faith save them?

Well James gave us the answer.

There is no such thing as a licentious gospel. It is just as evil and deadly as the legalistic gospel you hold dear to your heart. They will be just as lost as the legalist if they do not repent.

 

[John146]

Pretty sure I was clear that "trying to earn salvation" is that Right Ditch of Legalism, which Jesus Himself says is a myth in Luke 17:10 ( "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.") '

Look, I used to think like you so I know how quickly the threat level meter pegs whenever the word "works" rears it's perceived ugly head. It threatens the security that trust in OSAS provides...it wasn't until I placed my trust in Jesus' power to deliver me from temptation that I began to see what real victory can be like.

I guess this rules out any death bed salvations. If you’re on your death bed, you cannot call upon the Lord and be saved. That’s a sad outlook.

 

[Lightskin]

Pretty sure I was clear that "trying to earn salvation" is that Right Ditch of Legalism, which Jesus Himself says is a myth in Luke 17:10 ( "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.") '

Look, I used to think like you so I know how quickly the threat level meter pegs whenever the word "works" rears it's perceived ugly head. It threatens the security that trust in OSAS provides...it wasn't until I placed my trust in Jesus' power to deliver me from temptation that I began to see what real victory can be like.

Just me, you and the self righteous garbage you pedal is no threat to me. I’m eternally secured in Jesus Christ; not because I’m obedient, but because He was obedient.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just me, you and the self righteous garbage you pedal is no threat to me. I’m eternally secured in Jesus Christ; not because I’m obedient, but because He was obedient.

And he who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ so your not just a licentious easy believistic, "I said a prayer and I AM saved". type they want to make you out to be

 

[Lightskin]

And he who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ so your not just a licentious easy believistic, "I said a prayer and I AM saved". type they want to make you out to be

Amen, brother. When will people get it through their heads that we who believe in eternal security do not preach a license to sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen, brother. When will people get it through their heads that we who believe in eternal security do not preach a license to sin?

They can not come to this conclusion, Because if they do, they would have to admit they are wrong

so the only way possible is for them to repent of their belief system and come solely to the foot of the cross. like the tax collector did

 

[John146]

Amen, brother. When will people get it through their heads that we who believe in eternal security do not preach a license to sin?

Yes, Paul said God forbid that kind of thinking. Shall we sin that grace should abound?

 

[EleventhHour]

trying to earn salvation

Having to keep/maintain salvation is contrary to it be defined as a gift.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Amen, brother. When will people get it through their heads that we who believe in eternal security do not preach a license to sin?

It is there empty card like the joker to stand on , they use it as their stool from their own imagination...
I mean to have that kind of thinking in their heart is just so wrong...

I started out in my walk with Christ when God called me thinking I could lose my Salvation , it took me almost a year before @preacher4truth showed me a Scripture in Hebrews that convinced me I was not saved that it was addressed to the Jews who where coming to faith in Christ...

I stood where these people where and all I had was fear , no joy because I was always thinking I was not truly saved...

I would never ever want to go over that side of the fence again ...

I know I am a sinner , saved by Gods amazing grace , and knowing His mercy and grace are new every morning reminds me that He gives this to us because we need it daily , and that comforts me Amen...
...xox...