Not By Works

[miknik5]

Good News and Bad News:

miknik5,

has left the thread abruptly.

BAD NEWS

She landed on my Temple News thread and started to argue with me,
So I Warned Her, and gave her my first official WARNING.

Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


Yet another person ADDICTED to agruments.

I argued with you?

I disagreed with you.

I do not agree that an earthly temple needs to be built...and only those in ignorance will build it...

 

[Phoneman-777]

The SDA have some really weird ideas all from EG White such as the "The investigative judgment" - this is a bizarre concoction of tripe:

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle that the Lord set up and not humans. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.

Source of confusion

Folks that believe this kind of malarkey will fall for anything. But then they are the source of the great disappointment when JC failed to return in 1844.

John said if that which you HEARD from the begining

He did not say that which you entrusted.

so sorry your wrong

I already showed you where John said a child of God can not live in sin.

Let me show you something else he said

remember John said he who is born og God can not sin. because he has been born of God

Well he says later that they have also overcome the world. Not because they works, or stopped sinning, but because they entrusted their lives to Jesus

1 John 5: 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

John also shows that whoever is born of God, through their faith, also Has eternal life.

1 John 5: 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, [e]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Now of course, Explain why Jphn said we can KNOW WE have life eternal. if he really as you claim, teaches our life is conditional?



Nope. he said a saint can not live in habitual sin.

A backslider is still a christian, he is just a christian who is under chastening.

Any person who is born of God, is by definition a saint (set apart) we are set apart by God, and given the power to become his sons and daughters because he gave us that right, when we believed in him (john 1)



yeah I saw what you did

You tried to compare a loving all powerful God with some pilot of some plane to try to prove to yourself that you are correct.

But it will not work on others, because we have come to Know the living God..

Trust is implied, is it not? Isn't faith defined as trusting in the unseen? John plainly says that if what we heard from the beginning remains in us, then we can continue in the Son and the Father. Math Science, Tech, Covenants, to name a few examples, are all governed by the "if/then" principle in which the demands of a condition must be met before a thing can be established...but when it comes to salvation, OSAS stubbornly refuses to recognize this principle.

In this case, the condition that must be met if we are to continue walking in God is that what we first heard remains in us..and if it ceases to remain in us, we will cease to walk with God - spiritual death. "He that hath not the Son hath not life."

BTW, the pilot analogy is an appropriate example. God is compared to many things in Scripture, is He not? Sower sowing seed, a Rich Man planting vineyards, a Husbandman hiring laborers, etc. No need to object with the "God is not a pilot" thing, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Are you trying to earn God’s grace?

Good question. On either side of the Path of the Just, Satan has two ditches and doesn't care into which one we fall:

Left Ditch: License - Love without Obedience - the myth of OSAS resides here.
Right Ditch: Legalism - Obedience without Love - the myth of earned salvation resides there.

Path of the Just: Obedience motivated by love - the centerline upon which I strive to stay.

 

[Phoneman-777]

so can you do us a favor. Stop judging us for things we would never even think of doing in the first place (not to mention, IT we did, God would chasten us, Who can withstand the chastening of God. can you? I know I could not) and start looking at your own sin, and judging yourself. as guilty as charged.

Judging who? I don't judge anyone - God is our Judge. But false doctrine? Ephesians 5:11 KJV commands us to expose it. OSAS seeks to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Hi!


You keep mentioning the Apostle Paul:

Gal 5:17 For the flesh has desires that are opposed to the Spirit, and the Spirit has desires that are opposed to the flesh, for these are in opposition to each other, so that you cannot do what you want.
---
Rom 7:15 For I don’t understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want – instead, I do what I hate.

Even he (Paul) wrestled with "the flesh"
As all those who are His hate when we "miss the mark", you break one you broke them all.....
That why we have 1 john 1:9...cleanse the "garment stained by the flesh"...

Agreed. However, the false Protestant idea that I'm already forgiven for sins I haven't even committed yet is curiously similar to the Roman Catholic practice of selling forgiveness for sins that have not yet been committed, as did John Tetzel as he traveled through the Papal Empire. Yes, I know, "the Cross provided forgiveness for all our sins past, present, and future". Only if you "confess and forsake them" can you claim such a promise, but if you continue in them while covering them with presumption, it "shall not prosper."

 

[Phoneman-777]

I see know where @Phoneman-777 is getting his ideas.

Sad, sad
And the whole idea whole idea of soul sleep ..more sad...

The Greek pagans taught that the Soul is immortal and escapes the body "shell" at death - because they, like many today, believed the first lie ever told: "Thou shalt not surely die." What does the Bible say? Here's just a few verses:

"Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." - James 5:20

"...the King of kings, and Lord of lords, Who only hath immortality." - 1 Timothy 6:16

"...the soul that sinneth, it shall die." - Ezekiel 18:4

"...to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for...immortality: eternal life." - Romans 2:7

"...but they thought He had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." -John 11:13-14

"Consider me, and hear me, O my God; lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death." - Psalms 13:3

 

[Phoneman-777]

Where is that verse in scripture that it is only sins past?

Romans 3:25 KJV

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yes the servant who can´t wait for HIS MASTER, who begins to beat his own servants...if he, this spiritual giant, knew HIS MASTERś GOOD WILL, he will receive more stripes than the servant who didn´t know and did the things that deserve stripes

Oh yes, familiar with it. I think it's a clear case of someone that failed to "endure to the end". We're constantly admonished to "watch", "be sober", "occupy", "endure", "be vibilant", not "sleep", stay in the "light", etc. Such admonitions would be unnecessary, if there were no consequences for ignoring them.

 

[Phoneman-777]

First off, OSAS doesn't "teach" anything. We accept the Truth given to us about salvation.

Actually, isn't it referred to as "the doctrine of OSAS"? Teaching is a synonym for Doctrine.

Secondly, that "relationship" is established once and for all when we accept Christ and become saved, through the "gift" provided by God through His Son Jesus Christ. That is what a relationship is.

So, when we accept Christ, from that moment on, we're locked in. OK, let's ask John what he thinks:

"Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father." - 1 John 2:24​

Cast aside that which previously remained in you from the beginning and it's a one way ticket to the Resurrection of the Damned.

Thirdly, There is a difference between "relationship" and "fellowship." Fellowship can be broken and mended. My children cannot never end their relationship with me. Kids and mother forever. Our fellowship with one another can be broken.

There is no Spiritual Switzerland.
You're either a branch connected to the vine, or you're in the fire.
You're either a sheep of His fold, or the wolf will eat you.
You're either a lost Prodigal or a found son...a dead Prodigal or a live son.
You're either with Him or against Him.

OSAS wants desperately to find in the Bible a mythological third category of faith (like the one Charles Stanley preaches called the "carnal Christian") where we can be out of "fellowship" with God without danger of Satan filling the vacuum. We all know what happens when the devil finds a swept and garnished but empty house, right?

Final thought, for you and those who preach works or hanging on to salvation: I would be very careful deciding who will be thrown into that lake of fire.

The only "works" I preach is "faith which worketh by love" - Galatians 5:6

For you and those who preach the dead faith of OSAS, I say eternal life can only be obtained by practicing living faith in Jesus - "faith which worketh by love".

 

[VCO]

I argued with you?

I disagreed with you.

I do not agree that an earthly temple needs to be built...and only those in ignorance will build it...

Your attitude is Arguing. Now you are on my IGNORE LIST on all threads.


Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

 

[EleventhHour]

Your attitude is Arguing. Now you are on my IGNORE LIST on all threads.


Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Attitude .... I have it listen to me and you need to read your bible.

 

[14meatcc]

Fair point.
I may not be the right one to ask. If you'd have read me before you'd know I was a professing Christian at one time and now have a bit of an issue of faith.
I can tell you what I can say about it now at this stage in my life, not as a walking Christian. It's called the good news because without it the bad news is you're going to suffer eternally in a place called hell.
There's a whole history behind how hell became what Christians today think of as bottomless, and full of fire and brimstone.
What someone like me asks is, if it is bottomless how does it come to be filled with fire and brimstone? And why would a God that is said to be a God of love and eternally benevolent create such a place to receive people? After he first created it to receive his first created angel and all those other angels that entered into a war in heaven so as to dethrone God. And why is it going to receive them in the far future only because they were all allowed to live by God after they lost that war. And were sent to earth by God, so as to plague humans all the days of their life.
Then for some reason God decided instead of it being a permanent suffering eventual abode of that angel and his followers, God decided to send fallen humans there too.
Why didn't God kill that angel Satan and those other angels after they dared make war on him in his own house, heaven? And after being cast out for that, why are they allowed to return to heaven and confer with God from time to time on how to mess with us? While he grants that to happen because they can't do anything unless he allows it.

Maybe it is called the good news because what it amounts to is once this life is over, you're dead. And you no longer have to live with the bad news that tells you in God's own words that all that I just described was predestined by him!

Hey, you asked. ;-)

I am very sorry and troubled reading your post. I apologise because I can not relate to losing faith. I believe that hell is a metaphor. There are no molecules in the spiritual realm.

 

[14meatcc]

How would you describe the following....

a. Using a whip to drive the money changers out of the temple

B. Using terms of derision like snakes, vipers, hypocrites or coffins filled with the bones of dead men


C. Using sarcasm to cut and belittle false teachers.

As a believer, there is NOTHING wrong with raking Jesus devaluing false liars and false teachers over the coals...NO where are we instructed to coddle them and or bend over backwards to appease them out of a false pretense of love.....ever!

Excellent point, but also it should not be a avenue to look for to criticize either. I'm not saying that you are, but some on here do.

 

[walknlight]

can you lose this grace also?

Hello!
Nothing about losing grace, He said "My grace is sufficient."
Losing the "measure of faith" that He gave.

God Bless...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

In this Age of GRACE, can you lose this faith also, that GOD gave?

God Bless...

The age of grace

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Are we talking about the foundation of the earth?

 

[walknlight]

HI!

Agreed. However, the false Protestant idea that I'm already forgiven for sins I haven't even committed yet is curiously........

Have you ever considered that God knew what you were going to do before you did it?

Those who are His, deal with "the flesh" and yea, like Apostle Paul and any other in Christ, we don't do what we want we do what we hate.

I have seen strong brethren in word and in deed, believers, producing GOOD FRUIT, give in to the flesh on occasion
No need to explain what they did because "you break one you break them all". They repented of their error, to God.

Are these lost and without hope?

God Bless....

 

[walknlight]

HI!

The age of grace

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Are we talking about the foundation of the earth?

The Church Age, the Dispensation of Grace, Age of Grace started on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

As you stated, His grace and plan of salvation has been seen since the beginning (Genesis-Revelation).

God Bless...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

HI!


The Church Age, the Dispensation of Grace, Age of Grace started on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

As you stated, His grace and plan of salvation has been seen since the beginning (Genesis-Revelation).

God Bless...

We always needed grace, Adam, Noah, Moses etc.

We saw grace carnated in Jesus (Titus 2:11).

God bless my friend

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Trust is implied, is it not? Isn't faith defined as trusting in the unseen? John plainly says that if what we heard from the beginning remains in us, then we can continue in the Son and the Father. Math Science, Tech, Covenants, to name a few examples, are all governed by the "if/then" principle in which the demands of a condition must be met before a thing can be established...but when it comes to salvation, OSAS stubbornly refuses to recognize this principle.

In this case, the condition that must be met if we are to continue walking in God is that what we first heard remains in us..and if it ceases to remain in us, we will cease to walk with God - spiritual death. "He that hath not the Son hath not life."

BTW, the pilot analogy is an appropriate example. God is compared to many things in Scripture, is He not? Sower sowing seed, a Rich Man planting vineyards, a Husbandman hiring laborers, etc. No need to object with the "God is not a pilot" thing, right or wrong?

yes, Trust

If you trust something will it not remain in you?

If you do not really trust in anything, it may stay for awhile. But it will fade. And you either have religion which you are using for some selfish thing, or you will walk away

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Judging who? I don't judge anyone - God is our Judge. But false doctrine? Ephesians 5:11 KJV commands us to expose it. OSAS seeks to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

OSAS is based on living faith dude not on a dead faith. People who have dead faith have no part with us,
So yes, you did judge us, and you judged us falsly

When are you going to show LIVING faith in God and his work. and stop trusting in your own work, which by defenition is a dead faith in God?