DID GOD FORSAKE HIS SON?

[Rosemaryx]

I already explained why I said he did not forsake him if you cherry pick my words then of course it will look that way. And at the very least if God did forsake Jesus Then why was he ressurected and why let him do all the miracles he did in acts and even sit at his right hand? The very definition of forsake is to abandon or give up on so did God God abandon Jesus even though he clearly says I will never leave or forsake you or was Jesus quoting the prophecy David wrote in Psalms to remind the Jews who knew the scriptures of the Torah that this was prophecied and that he is indeed who he claimed to be?

Hi Blain...
I am not sure if what I am typing is true , it is just my thoughts , but maybe because sin separates us all from God , at that precise moment when all our sins was on our LORD , Jesus felt that separation from His Father for the first time ever in His life , because sin separates ...
I am proerly wrong , but just a thought...
...xox...

 

[posthuman]

Hab 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

in context, the prophet is marveling at the fact that God apparently is beholding evil -- using the Chaldeans to chastise Israel.
Habakkuk is not saying God cannot see sin.

 

[posthuman]

The burden of proof is on you and the naysayers who claim that Christ was not literally forsaken of the cross.

He cannot deny Himself
(2 Timothy 2:13)
​

anything else i can help you with today?

 

[Blain]

Hi Blain...
I am not sure if what I am typing is true , it is just my thoughts , but maybe because sin separates us all from God , at that precise moment when all our sins was on our LORD , Jesus felt that separation from His Father for the first time ever in His life , because sin separates ...
I am proerly wrong , but just a thought...
...xox...

No I don't think your wrong it makes sense I am actually wondering if the translation itself is what is causing confusion I have read different versions of the bible and some say forsaken another says forgootten but I wonder what the actual text itself says it was written in greek but I don't know what the greek translation says or perhaps it is our understanding of the english word forsaken because what the definition says of the word doesn't seem to fit the situation.

Then again I myself may be in the wrong I know a wise friend on here who has helped me understand many things and even study the hebrew language I will ask her for help on this

 

[posthuman]

The burden of proof is on you and the naysayers who claim that Christ was not literally forsaken of the cross.

​

He cannot deny Himself​

(2 Timothy 2:13)​

​

need two witnesses?
i am your servant.

The Father has not left Me alone, ​

for I always do those things that please Him. ​

(John 8:29)​

​

 

[Rosemaryx]

No I don't think your wrong it makes sense I am actually wondering if the translation itself is what is causing confusion I have read different versions of the bible and some say forsaken another says forgootten but I wonder what the actual text itself says it was written in greek but I don't know what the greek translation says or perhaps it is our understanding of the english word forsaken because what the definition says of the word doesn't seem to fit the situation.

Then again I myself may be in the wrong I know a wise friend on here who has helped me understand many things and even study the hebrew language I will ask her for help on this

Are you talking about @Angela53510 , if so , I agree...
...xox...

 

[posthuman]

The burden of proof is on you and the naysayers who claim that Christ was not literally forsaken of the cross.

He cannot deny Himself
(2 Timothy 2:13)

The Father has not left Me alone,
for I always do those things that please Him.
(John 8:29)

oh the scripture says 'two or three' witnesses establish a matter, right?
i am obliged:

For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
neither hath He hid his face from him; but when he cried unto Him, He heard.
(Psalm 22:24)

​

 

[Bbrdrd]

There's a solution that doesn't require Jesus literally feeling separated from God that preserves the authenticity of the anguish in the words. I know when I am hurting, when I am suffering something that brings solace is singing. Martyrs have gone to the grave singing hymns. So what would Jesus sing in His hour of need? A psalm of hope like psalm 22. Through singing He both called attention to the prophetic nature of the psalm and also had a very human reaction to suffering.

 

[Blain]

Are you talking about @Angela53510 , if so , I agree...
...xox...

Yes that is exactly who I am talking about and not only is she wise council but she is not afraid to call me out if I am in the wrong lol I think we all need a friend like that

 

[Blain]

There's a solution that doesn't require Jesus literally feeling separated from God that preserves the authenticity of the anguish in the words. I know when I am hurting, when I am suffering something that brings solace is singing. Martyrs have gone to the grave singing hymns. So what would Jesus sing in His hour of need? A psalm of hope like psalm 22. Through singing He both called attention to the prophetic nature of the psalm and also had a very human reaction to suffering.

That is indeed an interesting perspective he was human and also God and crying out in anguish like that while beringing forth the prophetic meaning of the psalm would not be sinning.

 

[posthuman]

There's a solution that doesn't require Jesus literally feeling separated from God that preserves the authenticity of the anguish in the words. I know when I am hurting, when I am suffering something that brings solace is singing. Martyrs have gone to the grave singing hymns. So what would Jesus sing in His hour of need? A psalm of hope like psalm 22. Through singing He both called attention to the prophetic nature of the psalm and also had a very human reaction to suffering.

Psalm 22 happens to have a title, it is called 'the hind of the morning'
the hind ((a deer)) is Israel. it is the hind, Israel, who thinks she has been forsaken, and cries, why? and it is God manifest in the flesh, Jesus of Nazareth, hanging there on the cross totally-not-forsaking-them-at-all-in-fact-saving-them. that is, IMO, what He is calling attention to. it is being fulfilled in the moments He sings it; a duet between God and man: here is the Son of Man declaring Himself

 

[biker]

Psalm 22 happens to have a title, it is called 'the hind of the morning'
the hind ((a deer)) is Israel. it is the hind, Israel, who thinks she has been forsaken, and cries, why? and it is God manifest in the flesh, Jesus of Nazareth, hanging there on the cross totally-not-forsaking-them-at-all-in-fact-saving-them. that is, IMO, what He is calling attention to. it is being fulfilled in the moments He sings it; a duet between God and man: here is the Son of Man declaring Himself

I rather enjoy this viewpoint, Thank You for sharing.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

"He said, 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

If you are ever studying Hebrew, you will learn that you have to study the Bible from all angles. The one thing we always do, especially in difficult verses like this is to go and look at the first time the word appear in the Hebrew scriptures because it is like God is building His word brick by brick and that is the starting point.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Yeshua left his home and came to restore the curse of the law, the fact that a groom cannot get married to his bride after he gave her a bill of divorce (1 Corinthians 7:39). Israel (us) can now once again be His bride after he died and we have to love our God for being perfect every time.

 

[Journeyman]

Of course not, but there will be thousands of sermons given around the world this week claiming He did forsake His Son. What is the truth, the Biblical truth? It is written in the book of Hebrews 13:5, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. That is the Lord's promise to us; does it make any sense that He would not extend that promise to His only begotten Son?

While it is true that our Beloved had to die a miserable death for us to have salvation, it is not true that our Heavenly Father forsook Him. And many Christians are saying, "Wait a minute, the Lord said those words on the cross Himself, I read it in Matthew 27:46." "He said, 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" Yes, He did say those words, but we, as believers upon Him, need to understand WHY He said those words. There is a good reason; our Lord was identifying Himself as our Messiah, teaching us, and fulfilling prophecy.

Go to Psalm 22, the crucifixion psalm, and read the 1st sentence of the 1st verse. It says, My GOD, My GOD, why hast Thou forsaken Me? That psalm was written by the Holy Spirit, through David, approximately 1,000 years earlier. Our Lord, while He was dying on the cross, was directing us to read that psalm, His crucifixion psalm. And the first thing we should realize is that our Lord Jesus, while addressing GOD directly, never called Him GOD; He always called Him Father.

If I might, I would like to suggest that everyone read the crucifixion psalm this Passover week. In the 8th verse you will see the Pharisees surrounding Him, saying, He trusted on the LORD that He would deliver Him: Let Him deliver Him, seeing He delighted in Him. In the 14th verse we can read of His agony: I am poured out like water, and all My bones are out of joint. In verse 16 we read, They pierced My hands and My feet, and in verse 18 we see the Roman soldiers gambling for His garments: They part My garments among them, and cast lots upon My vesture.

In the last verse we read His instructions to this generation: They shall come, and shall declare His righteousness unto a People that shall be born, that He hath done this. Put another way, It is finished. The point of this post is for all Christians to understand what was really going on when our Beloved spoke certain things while being crucified. He was teaching us Who He was, and fulfilling prophecy. Our Father would never forsake Him.

Right. Jesus was directing the people mocking him to a psalm which teaches that God doesn't forsake the righteous.

 

[notuptome]

in context, the prophet is marveling at the fact that God apparently is beholding evil -- using the Chaldeans to chastise Israel.
Habakkuk is not saying God cannot see sin.

Sin separates us from God. When Jesus became sin for us He was separated from the Father. Jesus knew the why but He was experiencing the what of the exclamation.

Contextually you are correct but this is an application not an interpretation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him. (John 8:29)

When someone misapplies a Scripture to prove his false position, look out. What is the context of this verse, and what is the purpose of Psalm 22 (two different things)?. In John 8, the Pharisees were accusing Christ of falsely claiming to be the Light of the world: The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. Christ's response was thus: And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Therefore Jesus was declaring His testimony of Himself as true, since God the Father was the second witness. And Christ did not even mention the Holy Spirit, who was the third witness. Now you are trying to take this and apply it to what happened at the cross, which is indeed a misapplication of Scripture.

When we turn to Psalm 22:1, it is a prophetic statement which would be made by Christ about 1,000 years later. And it is A VERY PLAIN STATEMENT related to what Christ had become on that cross -- "For He was made SIN for us..." It was a divine necessity that Jesus should bear the full wrath of God against sin in His own holy soul in order to purchase our redemption. And when God pours out His wrath, He does indeed forsake the one who is subject to His wrath.

The Father did forsake the Son, and that is why the Son cried out in anguish "Why hast thou forsaken me?" (even though Jesus knew from eternity past that He would be forsaken for three dark hours). It is not as though Christ did not know why He was forsaken, but it was definitely a cry of total anguish. Indeed the Holy Spirit gave those words to David, because God knew that that is exactly what would happen in 30 AD, and those words would be uttered on the cross by Christ.

It simply amazes me that any Christian would try to diminish what Christ experienced as the Lamb of God. Isaiah 53 -- and other passages -- present in some small measure the sufferings of Christ for our salvation.

TOTAL DARKNESS PREVENTED MEN FROM SEEING THE AGONY OF CHRIST
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour...And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.(Mt 27:45; Lk 23:44,45) As many were astonied [astonished] at thee; His visage was so marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men: (Isa 52:14)

THE FATHER TEMPORARILY FORSOOK THE SON IN HIS WRATH
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Mt 27:46) My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? (Ps 22:1)

CHRIST’S HEART “MELTED LIKE WAX” IN INTENSE AGONY
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.[internal parts or organs] (Ps 22:14) Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. (Ps 69:20)

THE “TERRORS OF DEATH” FELL UPON CHRIST, HORROR OVERWHELMED HIM
My heart is sore pained within me: and the terrors of death are fallen upon me. Fearfulness and trembling are come upon me, and horror hath overwhelmed me. (Ps 55:4,5) I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me. (Ps 69:2) Let not the waterflood overflow me, neither let the deep swallow me up, and let not the pit shut her mouth upon me. (Ps 69:15) The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow. (Ps 116:3)

CHRIST’S SOUL WAS PIERCED WITH “A SWORD” (THE WRATH OF GOD)
Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling [my precious life] from the power of the dog.[figurative for Gentile enemies] (Ps 22:20) For I have eaten ashes like bread, and mingled my drink with weeping, Because of thine indignation and thy wrath: for thou hast lifted me up, and cast me down. (Ps 102:9,10) Awake, O sword, against my Shepherd, and against the Man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. (Zech 13:7)

CHRIST WAS SMITTEN BY GOD AND AFFLICTED
For they persecute Him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. (Ps 69:26) Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (Isa 53:4)

CHRIST BORE THE PUNISHMENT FOR OUR PEACE
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.(Isa 53:5)

CHRIST PAID THE PENALTY FOR OUR SINS AND OUR GUILT
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. (Isa 53:6) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was He stricken. (Isa 53:8)

CHRIST MADE HIS SOUL AN OFFERING FOR SIN
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isa 53:10-12)

 

[posthuman]

When someone misapplies a Scripture to prove his false position, look out. What is the context of this verse, and what is the purpose of Psalm 22 (two different things)?

my friend, Jesus explains in John 8:29 something: He is not alone because He always does that which pleases the Father. this is independent of context; it is simply true. He uses immutable truth to answer their specific objection in the immediate context of John 8, but it doesn't change the truth of what He says, making it contingent on circumstance. it's not 'relative' -- moreover the immediate context of John 8:29 is the crucifixion:

They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.​

Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM, and I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”
As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.​

(John 8:27-30)
​

now, you say He became alone. from John 8:29 it is implied that He displeased the Father. do you believe He displeased the Father? does God find God to be reprehensible?

this is not 'simple' - this is the most profound event in all of history! Christ is God and is never not God, even for an instant.
do not settle for superficial understanding! even if it blows up what you have traditionally heard from men! the immediate context of John 8:29 is the person of Jesus of Nazareth, the LORD God Almighty manifest in the flesh:

they said to Him, “Who are You?”
(John 8:25) ​

​

when He is lifted up is when you will know that He is I AM THAT I AM -- how? by seeing God deny Himself?

 

[posthuman]

It simply amazes me that any Christian would try to diminish what Christ experienced as the Lamb of God.

the problem here as i see it is that you do not respect His deity enough to appreciate the magnitude of the cross -- so that you think it diminishes God if a person doesn't pity the Almighty or think I AM THAT I AM was confused, scared, lost and delirious. you've been taught to talk about the Living God as though instead of being blown away with awe we're supposed to feel sorry for Him, and you think i'm 'diminishing' His work by shivering at the majesty of His awesome wisdom and power instead of signing a 'get-well-soon card' ??

 

[Bbrdrd]

Sin separates us from God. When Jesus became sin for us He was separated from the Father. Jesus knew the why but He was experiencing the what of the exclamation.

Contextually you are correct but this is an application not an interpretation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It seems there's a translation issue that's causing some confusion. Jesus did not have a metaphysical change becoming "sin" as a tangible object. Sin was a common short hand for the sin offering, and so saying Jesus became sin is simply saying He was God's sin offering.

 

[posthuman]

It seems there's a translation issue that's causing some confusion. Jesus did not have a metaphysical change becoming "sin" as a tangible object. Sin was a common short hand for the sin offering, and so saying Jesus became sin is simply saying He was God's sin offering.

it's as Yom Kippur, and as Numbers 21. it's Exodus 4 & 7; He swallows up the serpents in victory: 1 Cor. 15:54
the ministry of condemnation engraved on stones is contained in the ark, clothed in gold, sprinkled in blood. God doesn't look down from the mercy seat and pour out His wrath on the ark, and He doesn't forsake the testimony. He sees the blood and is satisfied: the priest puts it there; God doesn't condemn the innocent.