Our belief system is based upon a God that is in control. Yours is not.
How do you know what I believe about the sovereignty of God? You make a lot of comments like that, and it is rather rude.
I believe God is in control, but there are plenty of things in scripture that do not fit with the heavy deterministic lens that some Calvinists uses:
Jeremiah 19:5
They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire
for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake
it, neither came
it into my mind:
or
Jeremiah 18
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
Having a Biblical world view is more important than the sense of certainty that comes from heavy determinism.
God decrees that mankind will not always obey his commandments.
Where did God decree that? What do you mean by that?
I don't see any conflict unless you are a free-willer who cannot see the complexity of God's decretive will versus his prescriptive will, because he cannot reason in a complex manner. And, I fear that is the reality.
Where does scripture teach that God has a decretive will and a presecriptive will? Some people's beliefs rely heavily on terms and concepts developed by theologians, rather than scripture. That seems to be the case of many, many cessationists on the topic of cessationism.
By the way, free-willers must make up weird explanations to support their weird beliefs, which likely leads to explanations like the "prettiest daisies" explanations. That is likely not coming from the Reformed camp, so please provide more details and I will continue my own analysis. If it is anectdotal, please admit it.
That's probably not something a Reformed preacher said. If there were a saying like that, it would have to be about tulips, not daisies.
Regarding the woman with arthritis, who are you to claim one way or the other? You don't know God's will for this woman. The WOF claim is that there is no reason for the woman's suffering.
I do not agree with WOFers, but I do not think any of them would say there is no reason for human suffering. They would allow for suffering through persecution. As far as Pentecostal go, there are Pentecostals who would recognize that people can learn things through suffering sickness, who also believe in healing.
I don't have any problem with someone sharing all the promises and teaching of scripture regarding healing with the woman, to help encourage her to believe God for healing. There are plenty of scriptures on that.
But it is possible for someone to know some of God's thoughts or attitudes toward a particular individual and a particular illness if the Lord reveals that specifically to the individually. Whether that happens or not, we still have the teaching of the Bible.
If she is not healed, and she believes your theology, she only has herself to blame, or she can blame nothing.
That is rude of you to tell me what I believe. If you were an elder of the church and anointed her and prayed for her, I might be tempted to blame your lack of faith.
If she is a Reformed person, she would know God has purpose in her suffering, regardless, and she can have faith in this knowledge. Do you have any such comfort to offer this woman?
You are assuming a false dichotomy, that seeing that God has a purpose in such a situation is contrary to believing in healing.
We can offer her hope regardless of her situation. God may heal according to his sovereign will, or he may not heal according to his sovereign will. Either way, she knows it is sovereign will in the Reformed worldview.
The elders could pray for her, anointing her with oil in the name of the Lord. Scripture says the prayer of faith will save the sick.
And, your worldview offers up the ability to be blamed for her lack of faithfulness.
This is your issue, not mine. I don't blame sick people. I believe we should encourage people to ask and keep on asking. Not all my prayers are answered instantly. Does that mean that I should not trust God for what I pray for?
I went through over a year of unemployment, doing a little small business that did not make very much money while I looked for something. I'd turned down a job at a Christian organization that required I make a vow, to the Lord a foolish one at that (impossible to keep all of it), so I was unemployed. I did pray for money and a job. It took me over a year to get a job. But the Lord fed my family and somehow kept us in a house, even though I went for months unsure of where the rent would come from. Now, I am employed and work from home during the current crisis. Should I have 'blamed myself' when my prayers about finances were not instantly answered, or should I have kept believing God for provision?
We know if she is saved, her life is in God's hands.
What about salvation? Would you say that if she believes the Gospel she will be saved if that is according to God's sovereign will, and otherwise not?
The cult I belonged to was basically Word of Faith. Those hypocrites visited doctors even though they believed it was a lack of faith, even their leaders. Even their "apostle" used doctors. I imagine it is the same with others in the charismatic movement, especially the ones who make money filling their cheeks up with botox injections.
Like I said, I am not from the WOF movement. In the churches I have gone to that believed in healing... as far as I can tell... the attitude was that God can heal through doctors, natural means, and through supernatural intervention. But if you have a choice to pray that God heal completely or simply 'guide the doctor's hands, I prefer the former. I remember praying for a young woman in college, when many of us from the Bible study gathered around to pray, that when she went to the doctor, the doctor would tell her he could find no evidence of her problem and that she would be completely healed. She told me later that was what happened. I'd rather have that than God guiding a doctor's hands while they cut me open.
And, like I have maintained, I do not see clear deliniations between Word of Faith, Pentecostal, and charismatic. If there are clear delineations, I don't see them. Even the ones who decry Word of Faith theology will make remarks that affirms their theology as I talk to them more and more.
Maybe because you have (or have until recently) had some unbiblical ideas when it comes to believing God for things and for healing. You apparently weren't aware of the connection between healing and faith in the gospels ('according to your faith be it unto you' and many similar passages.)
'Word of faith' is a Biblical phrase from Romans 10, so that is not what I am talking about, but the group that uses that label tend to believe that Jesus died spiritually in Hell after His death on the cross. Many of them have a very extreme view about calamities coming from the Devil and not from God-- at least those who accept Hagin's view on it. Some of the fund raising technique are rather unseemly. If you say, "I've got a cold" they might jump on your case and tell you you are making a negative confession. Those are things I haven't heard in a Pentecostal church. Pentecostals tend to be more like regular evangelicals, sometimes with 'livelier' worship music. I've never seen a Pentecostal preacher tell everyone to come to the front who wants to pledge $1000 for the new building, but you might see something like that in a WOF church. Pentecostals teach that God provides for our needs. But in a WOF church, you might hear sermons about needing to have money so that rich people will respect you when you tell them about the Gospel. Pentecostals have their own denominations, too. There are some Pentecostals who draw from some WOF ideas, too. But I haven't read the Jesus dies spiritually doctrine from Pentecostals or rebuking people for negative confessions, etc.
Word of Faith is a subset of the Charismatic movement. There are a wide variety of styles in Charismatic churches, and there are Charismatic churches where you don't hear or see those WOF doctrines and practices I mentioned above.
