Which Delivered Us from the Wrath to Come. (1Th 1:10)

[crossnote]

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10)

I used to toy with the idea that 'the wrath to come' was a euphemism for hell.
Let's say it is, then what is all the destruction that goes on in Revelation and the sudden destruction that takes the world by surprise in 1Thess 5:3?

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(1Th 5:3)

Let's say it is not a euphemism for hell but a brief description of the Great Tribulation which is to fall upon this world at a time they are unaware.

Matthew 24:38-39 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then would not 'which delivered us from the wrath to come' be referring to the rapture of the Church?

 

[crossnote]

Sorry, forgot to add this supplemental verse...

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes, I do believe 1 Thessalonians 1:10's "the One delivering [participle] us out-from [ek] the wrath coming [participle]" speaks of "our Rapture" event.

I've mentioned in past posts that Paul refers to the event (what we call "Rapture") something like 10 times in these 2 epistles, not just the one most-commonly-referred-to verse of 1Th4:17 ('caught up/away').



So, the two other verses you cite from the 1 Thessalonian epistle refer to this also. Agreed.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @crossnote, I always thought that being saved from the coming wrath was most directly associated with being saved from the Day of Judgment at the Great White Throne, IOW, from the "Day of the Lord". Also, that being delivered from the coming wrath simply meant that we would not stand with the reprobate in the Judgment on that Day .. e.g. John 3:18, 5:24.

~Deut

 

[crossnote]

Hello @crossnote, I always thought that being saved from the coming wrath was most directly associated with being saved from the Day of Judgment at the Great White Throne, IOW, from the "Day of the Lord". Also, that being delivered from the coming wrath simply meant that we would not stand with the reprobate in the Judgment on that Day .. e.g. John 3:18, 5:24.
~Deut

Yes, I don't believe we will stand with the reprobate on the Day of Judgment because...
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)...Jesus took our judgment and we won't appear at the Great White Throne but will appear at the Bema Seat of Christ...
2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

In any case it does not appear in context of those Thessalonian passages 'eternal judgment' is the topic as much as the horrendous events about to take place with those who are in darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 (KJV) But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 (KJV) Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Also what would you say is all the destruction that goes on in Revelation?

 

[MattforJesus]

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10)

I used to toy with the idea that 'the wrath to come' was a euphemism for hell.
Let's say it is, then what is all the destruction that goes on in Revelation and the sudden destruction that takes the world by surprise in 1Thess 5:3?

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(1Th 5:3)

Let's say it is not a euphemism for hell but a brief description of the Great Tribulation which is to fall upon this world at a time they are unaware.

Matthew 24:38-39 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then would not 'which delivered us from the wrath to come' be referring to the rapture of the Church?

It would be the resurrection of the Church, and that we are not caught up in the world that will be punished for we escaped it by confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior, and believing the truth.

The book of Revelation is a revealing of Jesus to the world that He is God, which the mystery of God shall be finished for then they will know of God, and the book of Revelation is a a warning to the world to get right with God to escape these things that shall come upon earth, and to escape God's judgment on the wicked.

When the saints are taken off the earth then the wrath of God will be poured upon earth.

Which men's hearts will fail them for looking upon these things that shall come upon earth, and they shall hide themselves in caves and dens and say fall on us, and hide us from the Lamb and His wrath, and men shall seek death in those days and it shall flee from them.

When they shall say Peace and safety sudden destruction comes upon them which the destruction starts before the wrath of God is poured upon the world, for there will be much opposition to the New Age Christ and his ways, and the parents betraying the children, and the children betraying the parents, for people will want to save their physical life and betray those who confess Christ, and many problems on earth.

 

[Guojing]

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10)

I used to toy with the idea that 'the wrath to come' was a euphemism for hell.
Let's say it is, then what is all the destruction that goes on in Revelation and the sudden destruction that takes the world by surprise in 1Thess 5:3?

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(1Th 5:3)

Let's say it is not a euphemism for hell but a brief description of the Great Tribulation which is to fall upon this world at a time they are unaware.

Matthew 24:38-39 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then would not 'which delivered us from the wrath to come' be referring to the rapture of the Church?

Dispensationalists, who differentiate between Israel and the Body of Christ, between the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace, would take that passage as referring to the rapture of the Body of Christ before the Great Tribulation.

During the tribulation, Israel will be preached the gospel of the kingdom once again, they will see signs and wonders once again as well, but they will be facing the anti-christ.

 

[crossnote]

Dispensationalists, who differentiate between Israel and the Body of Christ, between the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace, would take that passage as referring to the rapture of the Body of Christ before the Great Tribulation.

During the tribulation, Israel will be preached the gospel of the kingdom once again, they will see signs and wonders once again as well, but they will be facing the anti-christ.

Do you agree with that view? Why? Why not?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then would not 'which delivered us from the wrath to come' be referring to the rapture of the Church?

That would be correct. The Church is not subject to wrath since Christ bore that wrath against us in Himself on the cross.

The wrath to come refers to the 6th and 7th seal judgments which will precede the Second Coming of Christ.

REVELATION 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Guojing]

Do you agree with that view? Why? Why not?

Yes of course I agree with that view. We have exchanged our different views on this distinction many times already.

 

[Dave-L]

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10)

I used to toy with the idea that 'the wrath to come' was a euphemism for hell.
Let's say it is, then what is all the destruction that goes on in Revelation and the sudden destruction that takes the world by surprise in 1Thess 5:3?

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(1Th 5:3)

Let's say it is not a euphemism for hell but a brief description of the Great Tribulation which is to fall upon this world at a time they are unaware.

Matthew 24:38-39 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then would not 'which delivered us from the wrath to come' be referring to the rapture of the Church?

The rapture happens after the resurrection at the end of the world. So yes, if you live that long.

 

[garee]

The wrath to come is execution of the wrath now be revealed from heaven spoken of in Romans 1. Hell as in dying is the suffering we face in this life as the wage of sin . The wrath revealing dying planet and people. It began in the garden

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans1;18

The judgment to come death and suffering associated within will be cast into the fire never to rise and condemn another entire creation through corruption.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The, "this is the second death" is the death of death (the letter of the law) itself along with the suffering call hell .You could say death as hell or death working as one as the kind of suffering of living in a corrupted body.

 

[garee]

The rapture happens after the resurrection at the end of the world. So yes, if you live that long.

Most people live to the last day to fulfill the promise of Christ having begun the good work he will continue to until the last day . The thousands years a metaphor for a unknown represents the last day.

But the day in reference is the last day under the Sun . No Sun and Moon in the new order.

 

[pottersclay]

Please listen fully, it's not about the how it's about the when.

 

[crossnote]

Yes of course I agree with that view. We have exchanged our different views on this distinction many times already.

Sorry, once in a while this old body's memory banks get short circuited

 

[crossnote]

The rapture happens after the resurrection at the end of the world. So yes, if you live that long.

So the Church goes thru God's wrath on this earth, then the rapture? What is the 'wrath to come' from which we are delivered from? (Remember, the theme to the Thessalonians has to do with the coming deception and the calamity that follows, not Judgment or hell.)

 

[Dave-L]

So the Church goes thru God's wrath on this earth, then the rapture? What is the 'wrath to come' from which we are delivered from? (Remember, the theme to the Thessalonians has to do with the coming deception and the calamity that follows, not Judgment or hell.)

Did the first-century Martyrs fed to lions suffer God's wrath? No, they had the privilege and rewards from suffering for Christ. We've come a long way. From dying horrible deaths in love for Jesus to the "rapture".

 

[azamzimtoti]

The wrath to come written of by Paul in Thessalonians was the very same wrath that John the Baptist spoke of which was the great tribulation.

The wrath to come/great tribulation occurred during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in the war of 66-70 AD. This is the same wrath that John spoke about in his revelation.

(Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.)

(Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.)

(Luke 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.)

John uses the "fall on us" motif in his revelation - this places the 6th seal in the life time of the women that heard Jesus speak:

(Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood)
.
.
(Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains)

(Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb)

(Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Verse 31 - "For if they do these things in the green tree, what might take place in the dry?"

 

[azamzimtoti]

Verse 31 - "For if they do these things in the green tree, what might take place in the dry?"

And your point is?