Not By Works

[miknik5]

You're taking the declaration in Romans too far. The declaration of uncleanness/unrighteousness is simply an acknowledgement all sin. It does not mean all are filthy sinners deserving of nothing more than fire and brimstone, nor that all are deserving of condemnation. We all need to be cleansed, and God provides that cleansing. Not absolving us of our sins, but cleansing from them and freedom from them. Otherwise the declarations that Job, and David, and Noah were righteous makes no sense. The claims of righteous generations and the admonitions in the wisdom books to live righteously makes no sense if none are righteous. You are in effect saying there is no such thing as sin if there is none righteous, and denying any ability for justice to be made manifest. Either he is unjust in selecting some for no reason to be saved while damning others through no fault of their own, or he damns everyone.

Stop. One of the works of those who were under the Law, was the work of a priest before GOD...there are none clean, no not one...means no man could enter into the holy of holies and minister before GOD for all who have sinned...

Just as Job prophecied and pled manś case....if only there were a day man between us...you seem not to understand only ONE entered in for us.

Further, a reading of Hebrews, should clear up for you, the shadows pointing to CHRIST as the ONE and ONLY MEDIATOR between GOD and man...

 

[EleventhHour]

They wouldn't have done either. Her gif wasn't violating the TOS here, and neither is mine.

Now if it had been a gif of someone flipping the bird, THAT WOULD be a bannable offense..

You mean I can put it back?

Hmmm ... I think I just might!!!

 

[miknik5]

Amen Blue... where we would be without you and your common sense approach.

Thanks!!

And have a coffee on me.

Forget it Blue Lady Bug and Eleventh Hour...
Youŕe right...

I will try my hardest not to speak with you going forward

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The context of Romans is the law. What else does Paul say in Romans?
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous "
"
"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Paul was not teaching that we are set free from a moral law in Romans, or that somehow our obligation to obey God had changed. What is supposed to change is our understanding of what it means to be righteous and wicked.

The key difference is your hope seems to be in Christ's death, and if that's what you want that's what you'll receive. My hope is in His resurrection. I have been made alive so that I may be a slave of righteousness. Because we are slaves to what masters us.

Paul also said in gal 3 that no one is maid righteous by the law. Because as moses said, cursed is the one who does not obey every word (perfection)

if we are lookin gto the law for moral guidance, we have to live as the law requires. Which only Christ has done.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Forget it Blue Lady Bug and Eleventh Hour...
Youŕe right...

I will try my hardest not to speak with you going forward

Why not? I'm happy to carry on a conversation here. With you or anyone.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Stop. One of the works of those who were under the Law, was the work of a priest before GOD...there are none clean, no not one...means no man could enter into the holy of holies and minister before GOD for all who have sinned...

Just as Job prophecied and pled manś case....you seem not to understand only ONE entered in for us.

Further, a reading of Hebrews, should clear up for you, the shadows pointing to CHRIST as the ONE and ONLY MEDIATOR between GOD and man...

You seem to not understand that Job was declared innocent by God, though both acknowledged he spoke rashly in his suffering. God vindicated Job's words and agreed that he had done nothing deserving of such suffering. There is a difference between living righteously and being absolutely righteous. God knows we are creatures and will not obey perfectly, and has grace for our failings. This is the issue with a lot in the OSAS/grace camps. You deny that there even is such a thing as righteousness, so how could you know your own unrighteousness?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, that's a bit of my own personal theory slipping through. In order for justice to be served, there must not only be a crime but also consciousness of crime. In the crucifixion the righteousness of the law was established in that it was proven it would not convict an innocent man.

I'm not sure what Christ set you free from, but for me it wasn't the law but sin.

He 1st set me free from the penalty of sin

This made me alive, where as I was dead in trespasses and sin

Then he set me from from the power of sin, in that it had no more power over me.

it does not good to set us from from sin, if the penalty remains in tact. Because then we would have no hope

 

[Bbrdrd]

Paul also said in gal 3 that no one is maid righteous by the law. Because as moses said, cursed is the one who does not obey every word (perfection)

if we are lookin gto the law for moral guidance, we have to live as the law requires. Which only Christ has done.

Yep, and the cross displays the unrighteousness in Deuteronomic code. It condemned an innocent man, not simply an innocent man but THE only innocent man. Men declared Him a blasphemer under Deut. 13. Yet God declared Him righteous, raising Him to life again.

 

[Bbrdrd]

He 1st set me free from the penalty of sin

This made me alive, where as I was dead in trespasses and sin

Then he set me from from the power of sin, in that it had no more power over me.

it does not good to set us from from sin, if the penalty remains in tact. Because then we would have no hope

The blood is not what sets us free from the penalty, God forgives our sins. And He is just to forgive because He is the one who is slighted. There is no law binding Him to punish sin, no higher order and the offense is against Him. So why would He need to torture an innocent man(even if that innocent man were Himself) to forgive something if we are able to forgive people who trespass against us without punishing anyone? Sin isn't simply a violation of a law, it has its own power and it multiplies and corrupts. Once sold under it, through our own power there is no escape. But God gives us cleansing so that we may be mastered by righteousness. It is still our duty to obey God, and there still is a coming judgment in which men who continue to choose sin despite God defeating its power will find themselves condemned.

 

[miknik5]

You seem to not understand that Job was declared innocent by God, though both acknowledged he spoke rashly in his suffering. God vindicated Job's words and agreed that he had done nothing deserving of such suffering. There is a difference between living righteously and being absolutely righteous. God knows we are creatures and will not obey perfectly, and has grace for our failings. This is the issue with a lot in the OSAS/grace camps. You deny that there even is such a thing as righteousness, so how could you know your own unrighteousness?

HE provided you with HIS UTMOST GRACE already...
Job was a picture of what we all will suffer...and our work is to wait and trust in HIM...and not to, as is said in Isaiah, in Revelation, in Job, curse/blame GOD ...that is, attribute to GOD what should NOT be attributed to THE GOD of LIGHT...

GOD removed HIS HEDGE>..
So many overlook that portion of Job...but it was from the beginning that THE HEDGE (of GODŚ PROTECTION) was temporariy moved..,.


Now you might want to read thesselonians and keep in mind, that HE who holds all things back, will be (temporarily) taken out of the way,,.,.and what befell Job., might very well befall us...


Our work is to be still and KNOW THAT HE IS GOD...and not to curse GOD, in ignorance, attributing the works of darkness to GOD

 

[Bbrdrd]

HE provided you with HIS UTMOST GRACE already...
Job was a picture of what we all will suffer...and our work is to wait and trust in HIM...and not to, as Isaiah, as Revelation, as Job say, call out and in error, curse/blame...attribute to GOD what should NOT be attributed to THE GOD of LIGHT...

GOD removed HIS HEDGE>..
So many overlook that portion of Job...but it was from the beginning that THE HEDGE (of GODŚ PROTECTION) was temporariy moved..,.


Now you might want to read thesselonians and keep in mind, that HE who holds all things back, will be (temporarily) taken out of the way,,.,.and what befell Job., might very well befall us...


Our work is to be still and KNOW THAT HE IS GOD...and not to curse GOD, in ignorance, attributing the works of darkness to GOD

That is the most wicked reading of Job I have ever seen, and the most disgusting distortion of justice as well. Through Job God proved that righteousness exists. That men will serve God free from the rewards of life and even under the duress of suffering. God's speech at the end proves Job was speaking the truth when he proclaimed he had done nothing deserving of such treatment, yet here you stand saying the opposite. And you call this grace?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep, and the cross displays the unrighteousness in Deuteronomic code. It condemned an innocent man, not simply an innocent man but THE only innocent man. Men declared Him a blasphemer under Deut. 13. Yet God declared Him righteous, raising Him to life again.

Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Rom 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short.

There are no innocent men or woman

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The blood is not what sets us free from the penalty, God forgives our sins. And He is just to forgive because He is the one who is slighted. There is no law binding Him to punish sin, no higher order and the offense is against Him. So why would He need to torture an innocent man(even if that innocent man were Himself) to forgive something if we are able to forgive people who trespass against us without punishing anyone? Sin isn't simply a violation of a law, it has its own power and it multiplies and corrupts. Once sold under it, through our own power there is no escape. But God gives us cleansing so that we may be mastered by righteousness. It is still our duty to obey God, and there still is a coming judgment in which men who continue to choose sin despite God defeating its power will find themselves condemned.

oh wow.

Without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness.

I think you need to restudy the law and what the blood sacrifice represented.

 

[Bbrdrd]

oh wow.

Without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness.

I think you need to restudy the law and what the blood sacrifice represented.

Re-read that verse. "According to the law of Moses..." Is God beholden to the law of Moses? Or did He make Himself subject to it for righteousness sake?

 

[miknik5]

You seem to not understand that Job was declared innocent by God, though both acknowledged he spoke rashly in his suffering. God vindicated Job's words and agreed that he had done nothing deserving of such suffering. There is a difference between living righteously and being absolutely righteous. God knows we are creatures and will not obey perfectly, and has grace for our failings. This is the issue with a lot in the OSAS/grace camps. You deny that there even is such a thing as righteousness, so how could you know your own unrighteousness?

How do you speak for me? I, is it I who deny that there is such a thing as righteousness? It isn´t....

It is GOD who declared it in HIS WORD...And it is Paul, by THE SPIRIT of CHRIST so powerfully work in him, who declared a righteousness made known...which is of FAITH....

and that sir, is FAITH, directed in and on CHRIST JESUS.

If I had not come, they would have no sin,,
But the truth is sir....HE has come...and it is because HE has come, that all mouths will be shut up and no one will be able to profess a sense of their own self-proclaimed righteousness apart from CHRIST...and HIS ROYAL ROBES of RIGHTEOUSNESS

Sir, as HE said,.,,we truly do need a cloak for our sins...

 

[Bbrdrd]

Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Rom 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short.

There are no innocent men or woman

You should re-read Job. He declares himself innocent, God agrees. God declares him blameless and upright in the beginning, allows the devil to prove his righteousness, and then vindicates Job's basic position though both agree Job spoke some rash words. The whole of the Bible testifies that there are the righteous and the wicked, and single verses out of context do not discredit the full witness of Scripture. I've already addressed Romans 3:3 earlier by going back to the Psalm Paul was quoting showing that it couldn't be making a sweeping declaration and instead Paul was using it rhetorically to tell the Jews "you are not more righteous than the gentiles because the law was revealed to you." It is this very doctrine of man that has born much poisonous fruit and perverted the true gospel.

 

[miknik5]

Yep, and the cross displays the unrighteousness in Deuteronomic code. It condemned an innocent man, not simply an innocent man but THE only innocent man. Men declared Him a blasphemer under Deut. 13. Yet God declared Him righteous, raising Him to life again.

You do not believe that HE came forth from GOD and into the world for the very purpose of laying down HIS LIFE< in order to provide the ONE AND ONLY WAY back unto the presence of GOD...

You believe that HIS crucifixion was a mistake?

It wasn´t.

It was THE WILL of GOD...for there was no other way...sir but the only WAY which opened the WAY into the HOLY of HOLIES...by and through and because of HIS FLESH, which is OUR COVERING...

Anyone uncovered can not come up to the throne, for they will be found....uncovered

 

[Bbrdrd]

How do you speak for me? I, is it I who deny that there is such a thing as righteousness? It isn´t....

It is GOD who declared it in HIS WORD...And it is Paul, by THE SPIRIT of CHRIST so powerfully work in him, who declared a righteousness made known...which is of FAITH....

and that sir, is FAITH, directed in and on CHRIST JESUS.

If I had not come, they would have no sin,,
But the truth is sir....HE has come...and it is because HE has come, that all mouths will be shut up and no one will be able to profess a sense of their own self-proclaimed righteousness apart from CHRIST...and HIS ROYAL ROBES of RIGHTEOUSNESS

Sir, as HE said,.,,we truly do need a cloak for our sins...

We are agreed it is faith in Christ that is righteousness, but your faith doesn't seem to be in Christ to me. Otherwise the modest proposition that you live according to that belief would not be so offensive to you. You're looking to the blood of an innocent man to absolve you of guilt, not recognizing your own culpability and need to obey. It seems to me you are trying to continue doing what you want rather than hearkening to the faith that is perfected in works. Your faith, instead, seems to be in an event. A critical event, mind you, but an event none the less.

 

[miknik5]

THE CROSS is the POWER of GOD for ALL WHO BELIEVE

 

[miknik5]

We are agreed it is faith in Christ that is righteousness, but your faith doesn't seem to be in Christ to me. Otherwise the modest proposition that you live according to that belief would not be so offensive to you. You're looking to the blood of an innocent man to absolve you of guilt, not recognizing your own culpability and need to obey. It seems to me you are trying to continue doing what you want rather than hearkening to the faith that is perfected in works. Your faith, instead, seems to be in an event. A critical event, mind you, but an event none the less.

I am looking to the blood of the SON OF GOD..as my covering...I am looking to the blood as the ONLY GARMENT needed...I am looking to the blood which marks my house as covenanted and set apart to GOD in THAT REFUGE which GOD has provided me...IN HIS SON...and I choose to remain In HIM and not go out from HIM...