Not By Works

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Lightskin said:
Elaborate
Click to expand...

I can

In God’s realm authority begins with being seated and receiving the gift that is salvation. ... that is our work..that is the work written about in the letter to the Ephesians.

It is not about little odd jobs we do for God.

So no it is not from a fleshy mind.
 
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miknik5 said:
Who gave us the works to begin with? And again, when öur works"into the light, we can see what is wrought in GOD, can´t we?
So will we boast that we......worked for our salvation?

Never...

The part where it says that these works were prepared in advance that we should walk in...
Can we boast that these were our works even...or that GOD, for the perfecting of the saints, until we all reach the unity of FAITH (which is directed in and on CHRIST JESUS alone for salvation) prepared who HE prepared, and gave gifts according to HIS PURPOSE for HIS GLORY alone...
Click to expand...



Perhaps you forgot, or never did know, SALVATION came in the MOMENT we first Genuinely Believed.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.


Many people FALSELY think SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the same thing, and they are NOT.

SALVATION is the birthing of the Human Spirit by the Holy Spirit, and it happens in an instant, when you first Genuinely BELIEVE.

SANCTIFICATION is the LIFE LONG STRUGGLE, of conforming out BODY out of pure AGAPE LOVE for HIM, to be like CHRIST.

In other words, SANCTIFICATION is what we work on, after SALVATION has ALREADY HAPPENED and is COMPLETE.

You don't want to believe SALVATION is only of the Human Spirit ? ? ?


John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
 
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Bbrdrd said:
If one believes Jesus they will follow Him.
Click to expand...

And to take this further:

To follow Jesus means to follow in his example of suffering.

1 Peter 2:
[21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow in his steps: [22] who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth...

1 Peter 4:
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Philippians 1:
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

2 Timothy 2:
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him...

Because:

"he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin" (1 Peter 4:1).

Which is why Jesus himself said:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10:27-28).

What's the lesson in the above verses?

  • Follow in sufferings of Christ
  • Cease from sin
  • You will never perish

Matthew 16:
[24]...If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Moses chose rather to suffer affliction than to enjoy the pleasures of sin (Hebrews 11:24).

And Job was warned, "Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction" (Job 36:21).
 
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EleventhHour said:
I can

In God’s realm authority begins with being seated and receiving the gift that is salvation. ... that is our work..that is the work written about in the letter to the Ephesians.

It is not about little odd jobs we do for God.

So no it is not from a fleshy mind.
Click to expand...
So my cutting the lawn for eight neighbors yesterday did nothing for my salvation?!!
 
Lightskin said:
Elaborate
Click to expand...
You want me to elaborate on the BODY of CHRIST?

GOD brought us into THE BODY...HE prepares gifts according to HIS PURPOSE..and HIS PURPOSE is so that we may be perfected in LOVE and that the BODY of CHRIST be edified..,..itś all for HIS GLORY alone...

No man will boast before HIM...all men will know that it is CHRIST alone who saves...flesh has nothing to do with lour salvation...
And this does not mean that we go out and take the gift of GOD as a license to sin...as some suggest.

No man will sit and say, I did this, and I did that...each of us, who believe, have already received what is necessary...we were made rich, the moment we believed and were baptized into CHRIST and risen IN HIM to new life...by HIS quickening SPIRIT

Itś HIS WORK and HIS WORK alone...and what HE began HE will bring to completion...
 
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EleventhHour said:
There is a division .....

Read it carefully.....

Romans 4:4-5
4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.
5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.…
Click to expand...

Once again taking Romans out of context, creating a division between Paul and James. The same faith that was credited to Abraham as righteousness was accounted to him on account of his works. The works in mind in Romans are works of the law, ceremonial offerings, sabbaths, dietary restrictions. There is no indication that this is meant to be saying something universal about things that are actually righteous and Romans in context(both considering the question at hand and the overall discussion in the book) makes it clear. We are commanded to do works meet unto repentance. It's not optional, God is not mocked.
 
VCO said:
Perhaps you forgot, or never did know, SALVATION came in the MOMENT we first Genuinely Believed.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.


Many people FALSELY think SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the same thing, and they are NOT.

SALVATION is the birthing of the Human Spirit by the Holy Spirit, and it happens in an instant, when you first Genuinely BELIEVE.

SANCTIFICATION is the LIFE LONG STRUGGLE, of conforming out BODY out of pure AGAPE LOVE for HIM, to be like CHRIST.

In other words, SANCTIFICATION is what we work on, after SALVATION has ALREADY HAPPENED and is COMPLETE.

You don't want to believe SALVATION is only of the Human Spirit ? ? ?


John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.
Click to expand...
I already responded to this when I said, we were made rich the moment we believed.

I do know and I DON´T forget

Some do though which is why there is always a works debate...
 
Bbrdrd said:
Once again taking Romans out of context, creating a division between Paul and James. The same faith that was credited to Abraham as righteousness was accounted to him on account of his works. The works in mind in Romans are works of the law, ceremonial offerings, sabbaths, dietary restrictions. There is no indication that this is meant to be saying something universal about things that are actually righteous and Romans in context(both considering the question at hand and the overall discussion in the book) makes it clear. We are commanded to do works meet unto repentance. It's not optional, God is not mocked.
Click to expand...

Then why did Jesus have to fulfill the law?
 
Bbrdrd said:
Then you are misinterpreting what I'm saying, I'm not saying salvation can be lost but that our perspective limits the usefulness of knowledge that all who Christ intends to save will be saved. Paul regularly encouranged believers to remain in the faith, made conditional statements about if they continue in the faith, etc. He did not judge men saved, not even himself until the end was in sight. The question I have in mind is not if they trust Christ but if they trust an event rather than Christ. And that's where works come in, because if they have no works then they may need to question where their faith actually lies. If there is resistance to the idea that we must obey God, if they react to that with hostility then it doesn't seem to me they've repented and put their faith in the gospel. I will judge a man no more saved than damned, and so exhort Godliness as well as trust.
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so you do believe in OSAS or eternal security?

I have to admit, From things you are saying it honestly appears you do not
 
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