Not By Works

[G2RBeliever]

Personally this applies to all ! I may not agree with your choices of theology or doctrinal beliefs but we are to love one anther,as Jesus loves us.

Addressed to no one but ALL of us!
Matthew 7:1 Judge not,that ye be not judged.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not,and ye shall not be condemned: FORGIVE,AND YE SHALL BE FORGIVEN:

 

[Judges1318]

Those in the NOSAS camp are generally quick to unfairly label those in the OSAS camp as promoting a 'license to sin.'

You need to get with the times.
Your Calvinist style osas is quickly disappearing from the Church.
Freegrace osas has replaced it.
I rarely have to address Calvinist osas anymore because even Calvinist's don't bother to defend it anymore.
And you are noticeably quiet despite all of these Freegrace osas posts being made here.
They are saying outrageous things that are completely contrary to your Calvinist style osas but you don't lift a finger to challenge them.
Let's face it, Calvinism is dying.
A new kid is in town.

Meanwhile, non-osas, the doctrine of the early church fathers (who were NOT works salvationists) is still alive and well.

 

[Judges1318]

ALL false religions and cults strongly oppose OSAS and teach salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons, SDA's etc..

All criminals wear black hats and have Tommy guns.
Therefore, everyone who has a black hat and a Tommy gun is a criminal.

 

[mailmandan]

Meanwhile, non-osas, the doctrine of the early church fathers (who were NOT works salvationists) is still alive and well.

I'm constantly reminded of that by Roman Catholics. hmm.. red flag

 

[mailmandan]

All criminals wear black hats and have Tommy guns.
Therefore, everyone who has a black hat and a Tommy gun is a criminal.

That ALL false religions and cults strongly oppose OSAS and teach salvation by works is still a red flag.

 

[mailmandan]

Meanwhile, non-osas, the doctrine of the early church fathers (who were NOT works salvationists) is still alive and well.

Do you mean not all of the church fathers? The church fathers were not infallible and neither were their writings. Out of one side of their mouth, they appear to teach that salvation is through faith and is not by works, yet out of the other side of their mouth, teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Roman Catholics quote the church fathers a lot in order to support salvation by water baptism, infant baptism, transubstantiation etc.. which is why I do not put a lot of stock in the writings of the church fathers.

http://justforcatholics.org/a116.htm
https://carm.org/early-church-fathers-baptism
https://www.catholic.com/tract/early-teachings-on-infant-baptism

 

[John146]

Meanwhile, non-osas, the doctrine of the early church fathers (who were NOT works salvationists) is still alive and well.

The huge problem I have with your theology is you claim if one ever stops believing, it is impossible for them at any point to repent and turn back to the Lord.

 

[EleventhHour]

Hi, the Holy Spirit seals Jesus' disciples with God's Law (Ephesians 4:30; Isaiah 8:16). Now, many Christians want this seal to refer to some kind of unbreakable bond that binds us to God in order to advance the OSAS idea...a kind of ligature that a kidnapper would use to rob us of our freedom.

However, in Scripture, the words "seal" and "sign" are synonymous (Romans 4:11), which means the function of the Biblical seal is not to deprive us of our freedom of choice, but to serve as an identifier of those who belong to God in the midst of a sinful world - a "mark" if you will that shows we worship not the Beast, but God.

That's why Jesus said people would know us by our good fruit - obedience. But, those who turn their back on God's word after "they have escaped the pollutions of this world" will be lost...likewise, Scripture says "if they (those who partake of the Holy Ghost) should fall away" it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance."

The word "sealed" means “to stamp for security or preservation......... "sealed with the Holy Spirit OF PROMISE" (Ephesians 1:13).

Because God is the One doing the preserving and securing through the Holy Spirit based upon the work of the Son, the seal cannot be broken.

If anyone believes he can lose his salvation, then he is not trusting completely in the perfect, finished work of Christ. He is placing his faith in Christ plus his own works and stating that salvation can be lost means that there is something I must do to keep the gift, it that were so then it is not a gift.

Your free will (not a biblical concept anyway) did not save you..... neither can it unsave you.

The call is to believe... belief into the person of Christ Jesus for salvation which saves. Done... finito...complete.

 

[EleventhHour]

Continuing to believe is not working to earn salvation.
I'm not aware of a scripture that says 'believing' is among the works that constitute the works gospel.
Are you aware of one?

Scripture is clear it is one act faith (born from above) that saves.

God did not set up this "continuing to believe to be saved" you are adding it into the scripture.

 

[EleventhHour]

Reading the entire letter, we see the works James is talking about:

"26If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." - James 1:26-27

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." - James 2:14-17

James says the person who does not have those works--actionable love for others, and doing right--has a faith that is dead, which he says can not save. You say he's not talking about being saved in regard to salvation. But John shows us this matter of loving a brother or sister and doing right, is very much a matter of faith in salvation. He says the person who does not have those works is not a child of God:

"10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10

The person who does not have the works James is talking about is not a child of God.

I know what he is writing about...... thanks.

One thing for sure he is not talking about works proving salvation in the sense that you use it... and he definitely not stating salvation can be lost... that does not appear in scripture.
You do not understand faith in the context of his writing.

I have already been through this with you before so no point revisiting it.

 

[CherieR]

The Bible defines 'faith' as the surety that something you can't see really is true.
God gives us this ability--this faith--to know the gospel we can't see really is true.
We have the choice to accept or reject what God has shown us to be true.
Our responsibility is to not walk away and reject what God has shown us is true but to embrace it and retain it in our hearts to the very end.

If your faith is failing or weak, go back to the One who authored it. He'll charge you back up.

I think more so learning to trust and rest in Him and also step out in faith. These may take time, motivation, patience and action.

Some things I've learned from having anxiety is the more you try to avoid that feeling of anxiety, the more it can come and restrict your activities. Putting off facing fears for a long time can generate more anticipatory anxiety than if they were not postponed. Every panic attack moment I have survived. They are uncomfortable but not dangerous.

 

[CherieR]

Scripture is clear it is one act faith (born from above) that saves.

God did not set up this "continuing to believe to be saved" you are adding it into the scripture.

I believed in Jesus as a young child but I may have not understood or known he was God.

Does Scripture address this?

 

[EleventhHour]

Matthew 18:21-35

Is about forgiveness, not about God taking back the gift of salvation, again reading into the text.

 

[EleventhHour]

I believed in Jesus as a young child but I may have not understood or known he was God.

Does Scripture address this?

I think the main thing is to come to the full knowledge of Jesus as Saviour, coming to Him and trusting in Him to receive the gift of salvation.

I see those early experiences as God drawing people to Himself and each of us responds along the way....but at some point we believe Him fully for salvation.

 

[Phoneman-777]

What is it about the free gift being revoked in Matthew 18:21-35 that you do not understand?

Hi there, it's interesting how one text says eternal life is irrevocable while other passages such as the parable of the Unmerciful Servant clearly demonstrate the contrary.

Instances such as these in Scripture usually result in the problem of Cognitive Dissonance and it is my experience that in the pursuit of a resolution, the mature Christian prioritizes truth-seeking over comfort, while the immature Christian does the opposite.

The search for truth leads us to the only explanation that we can find: "Conditional Salvation" - which says the promises of God, including the irrevocable gift of eternal life, can be claimed only by the exercise of living faith through the indwelling power of an enthroned Savior.

The OSAS Christian, having prioritized comfort over truth-seeking, employs the only neurological coping mechanism left to his disposal that can restore cognitive harmony: cast out the uncomfortable New Truth for the peaceful familiarity of the Old Truth...and that is how the OSAS crowd manages to either deliberately misinterpret the plain meaning of these aforementioned contrary passages or just pretend they don't exist altogether.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Continuing to believe is not working to earn salvation.
I'm not aware of a scripture that says 'believing' is among the works that constitute the works gospel.
Are you aware of one?

Amen..Antinomianists have been advancing this idea that thoughts = works for years, and it's high time we start calling this nonsense out.

 

[Judges1318]

The huge problem I have with your theology is you claim if one ever stops believing, it is impossible for them at any point to repent and turn back to the Lord.

Apparently, Hebrews 6:4-6 is referring to the person who has refused all of God's attempts to bring them back to faith in Christ. At which point He makes it impossible for them to come back. I think mitigating factors determine who He does that to, and when.

In the case of the Galatians, they had been deceived into returning to the law and away from Christ for justification. Perhaps that's why He gave them the time and space to repent. We will see at the Judgment if they heeded God's plea through Paul to come back. If they did not, at some point God would have turned them over to their unbelief and made it impossible for them to come back.

 

[Judges1318]

Do you mean not all of the church fathers? The church fathers were not infallible and neither were their writings. Out of one side of their mouth, they appear to teach that salvation is through faith and is not by works, yet out of the other side of their mouth, teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Roman Catholics quote the church fathers a lot in order to support salvation by water baptism, infant baptism, transubstantiation etc.. which is why I do not put a lot of stock in the writings of the church fathers.

http://justforcatholics.org/a116.htm
https://carm.org/early-church-fathers-baptism
https://www.catholic.com/tract/early-teachings-on-infant-baptism

The one thing they did not dispute among themselves was the rejection of the Gnostic based belief of osas.

 

[John146]

Apparently, Hebrews 6:4-6 is referring to the person who has refused all of God's attempts to bring them back to faith in Christ. At which point He makes it impossible for them to come back. I think mitigating factors determine who He does that to, and when.

In the case of the Galatians, they had been deceived into returning to the law and away from Christ for justification. Perhaps that's why He gave them the time and space to repent. We will see at the Judgment if they heeded God's plea through Paul to come back. If they did not, at some point God would have turned them over to their unbelief and made it impossible for them to come back.

You’re trying to apply doctrine to the Hebrews in the last days to the body of Christ. That’s where the problem lies. Why is it impossible for the Hebrews in the last days? Because if they have fallen away, it means they have taken the mark and are condemned for eternity. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, the body of Christ and Israel.

 

[EleventhHour]

Hi there, it's interesting how one text says eternal life is irrevocable while other passages such as the parable of the Unmerciful Servant clearly demonstrate the contrary.

Instances such as these in Scripture usually result in the problem of Cognitive Dissonance and it is my experience that in the pursuit of a resolution, the mature Christian prioritizes truth-seeking over comfort, while the immature Christian does the opposite.

The search for truth leads us to the only explanation that we can find: "Conditional Salvation" - which says the promises of God, including the irrevocable gift of eternal life, can be claimed only by the exercise of living faith through the indwelling power of an enthroned Savior.

The OSAS Christian, having prioritized comfort over truth-seeking, employs the only neurological coping mechanism left to his disposal that can restore cognitive harmony: cast out the uncomfortable New Truth for the peaceful familiarity of the Old Truth...and that is how the OSAS crowd manages to either deliberately misinterpret the plain meaning of these aforementioned contrary passages or just pretend they don't exist altogether.

Completely disagree!!

Once saved always saved is the Gospel, there is no cognitive dissonance, which means holding to two opposing ideas in one's mind at the same time.

It has nothing to do with the comfort of the believer ... it has all to do with the Saviour, HIS promises and HIS work and HIS faithfulness to HIS adopted children.

WE believe in Christ Jesus for the gift of eternal life...nothing less.

And the parable of the Unmerciful Servant does not at all refute OSAS.. you have to read to that into the parable as NOSAS people always do.