Is it a sin to drink alcohol
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Wrong epistle of Timothy. And there is no mention of Luke when it comes to the wine advice.
Why would wine mean unfermented grape juice.
Are you being serious? Your arguments are pretty dumb.
Addressed already:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-19#post-4201996
Addressed already:
[1] - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-6#post-4199834
[2] - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-6#post-4199837
[3] - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-6#post-4199838
[4] - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-6#post-4199841
And people wonder why I put so much in print. Much easier to reference later, when the same texts appear over and over, because persons do not desire to read through the thread to learn, but simply dive in to speak.
Yes was falsely accused of being a winebibber. His drinking of wine was not sinful. His opponents exaggerated. Because he ate and drank with others, they made his drinking out to be in excess, and also His eating, but that was not the case. But Jesus said the Son of man came eating and drinking. He did not deny drinking wine, here.
Drinking Red Wine Is Good for Gut Bacteria
Moderate Intake of Some Red Wines May Improve Health, Study Shows
https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20120524/drinking-red-wine-is-good-for-gut-bacteria
1 timothy 5
23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Seem to me what Paul mean by wine in this verse is alvoholic wine.
Base oN study moderat wine God for but bactery. Red wine in this study is alcoholic wine
Moderate Intake of Some Red Wines May Improve Health, Study Shows
https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20120524/drinking-red-wine-is-good-for-gut-bacteria
1 timothy 5
23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Seem to me what Paul mean by wine in this verse is alvoholic wine.
Base oN study moderat wine God for but bactery. Red wine in this study is alcoholic wine
Basketball must not have anything to do with a basket or a ball by the same 'logic'. Word scaffolding is very key in scripture.
As for 'sinister' it is not matters natural, but matters spiritual (thus ill-omened), as the 'right hand' is in scripture.
I already provided the definition of "intoxicated":
[1] - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-8#post-4200051
Of course not, as he drank the pure juice of the grape ("wine"), the fruit of the vine, and not alcohol, which is sin, and linked with woe, and sorrow, death, and the dragon.
Your excuses are ridiculous. It says 'thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God..' This was a tithe they consumed themselves.
I see no reason to accept your underlying assumption that wine is inherently evil. That's the idea, right? What reason is there to accept your interpretation? Why should we think that your strained reinterpretations of words in the Bible to fit your teetotaler view are what the Hebrew words really meant? And why didn't anyone who actually spoke the languages figure this out before teetotalerism came on the scene?
The men who spoke ill of Saul after he was anointed were called 'sons of Belial.' Your argument doesn't hold much water. The fact that you mentioned Bacchus when speaking of religions in the Levant would seem to confirm my suspicion that you just make your commentary up as you read, and that you just try to spin passages to support your teetotaler theories, thinking it is wisdom to do so.
The question is... why? Why would you post dictionary definitions that have nothing to do with what the Biblical passages mean? It's just space-wasting posts. We know what 'intoxicated' means. It doesn't mean 'toxic' either, though there is an etymological connection. Moses and Jesus didn't go around speaking to people modern English, which didn't exist yet.
Etymologies of English words have little to do with this discussion. I studied about Proto-IndonEuropean derivations as an undergrad. That kind of stuff is irrelevant to our discussion.
Occasionally quoting Thayers, Strong's, etc. for a Greek word makes sense because most of the audience here does not know Greek. Looking up etymologies of English words like wine and posting it here the way you have been doing is a waste of bandwidth. It contributes nothind proves nothing.
You had some other stuff in the post, too, like
We can see by the title that the article is about alcohol MISUSE, not moderate use. Most of the posters on the thread are not in favor of misusing alcohol. The scripture speaks negatively of 'excess of wine.'
I Peter 4:3
For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
Why doesn't he condemn drinking wine in general?
There there are those deacons.
I Timothy 3
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Notice the deacons should not be given to much wine. Now, if drinking any wine at all were wrong, Paul would be negligent here. Notice he doesn't say that deacons could be a little doubletongues, a little greedy, or hold to the mystery of the faith with a conscience that is just a little dirty. If drinking wine in moderation is so bad, why would Paul allow just a little badness when it comes to wine but not the rest.
Notice the deacon can meet this threshelod of not being given to MUCH wine and still be blameless. So one can be blameless and still drink in moderation.
Btw, I was talking about looking up words every fully developed speaker knows in the English dictionary. It's not like we are talking about a word like 'pedantic' either. There are lots of words people look up. 'Wine' isn't one we need definitions for. And trying to find spiritual meanings about the interpretation of scripture from the words Daniel Webster uses doesn't make much sense.
But while you are talking about definitions of words, some compound words are closely related to the words they are made of. Some words are closely related to their etymologies. Others are not. Sinister comes from Latin for left-handed. But when we call someone left-handed in English, we aren't calling them sinister, and if we call them sinister, we are not calling them left-handed.
Do you have a daughter? My Historical Linguistics, Sanskrit, and Classical Armenian professor, a ProtoIndonEuropean expert said 'daughter' is believed to have been derived from the ProtoIndonEuropean for 'little milker.'
So that means if your daughter doesn't milk a cow, goat, etc., she isn't really your daughter. I should call child protective services to pick her up right now.
Your argument is an illogical argument using etymology. If you actually believe that 'wine' in English includes non-alcoholic beverages, that's plain silly.
What are engaged in might be considered sophistry, if it were clever enough. Someone would have to be pretty gullible to accept your line of reasoning here.
So that means if your daughter doesn't milk a cow, goat, etc., she isn't really your daughter. I should call child protective services to pick her up right now.
Your argument is an illogical argument using etymology. If you actually believe that 'wine' in English includes non-alcoholic beverages, that's plain silly.
What are engaged in might be considered sophistry, if it were clever enough. Someone would have to be pretty gullible to accept your line of reasoning here.
There is nothing wrong in drinking alcohol in moderation but according to Paul we are not supposed to eat or drink anything that leads others into sin. One thing I cant understand is why some Churches use things like Ribena in communion as a substitute. Havn't they ever heard of Grape Juice?
HE hast made us unto our God kings and priests: A chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that we should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. WE As lively stones, are built up a spiritual house. Upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. The temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(Rev 5:10; 1:6; 1Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22 1 Cor 6:19)
What was the council for Kings and Priests?
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.(Prov 31:4,5 KJV)
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
(Lev 10:9 KJV)
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
(Lev 10:9-10 KJV)
Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
(Eze 44:21 KJV)
So We see that we as Kings are not to drink wine or strong drink at all lest their judgment be perverted. And we as Priests are not to drink wine or strong drink before we entered the inner court yard and the Tabernacle of the Congregation, the Temple.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(1Cor 3:16)
Seem to me this verse is for Israel in the OT in the context of not drunk and couse problem in the temple
But If we have problem with stomach, Paul advised timothy to drink little wine
This advised consistent with modern study that say moderat Red wine good for gut bacteria
If you had done a word study on that text, and connected it to Titus, in both contexts, you would understand it is not speaking about 'amount' of alcohol. It is speaking about not being altogether slaves (even constantly thinking on) of alcohol, as many of the pagans, Gentiles (in their various temples, and false worship, etc) and even some Jews were. It is stating that a Deacon (etc) could not hold that office, while being enslaved altogether to alcohol.
When you desire to see that word study and context, you let me know, otherwise, please feel free to study to shew thyself approved unto God, and let go your inebriated theology. You have 'beer-goggle' theology.
Yet, even Strong's shows, in very brief what I stated as being true, that being "drunk" with alcohol is not the only meaning of methuo (etc), thus here is a Lexicon:
"μεθύσκω+V 3-2-16-9-7=37Gn 9,21; 43,34; Is 34,5.7; 49,26 A: to make drunk [τινα] 2 Sm 11,13; to make drunk (metaph.), to drench [τι] Dt 32,42; to fill with [τινάτινος] (metaph.) Lam 3,15; to give to drink [abs.] Ps 22(23),5; to satiate [τινα] Sir 1,16; id. [τι] Jer 38(31),14; to saturate [τι] Ps 64(65),11; to water, to drench [τι] Sir 24,31 P: to be drunk Gn 9,21; id.(metaph.) Jdt 6,4; to be filled (with food) [τινι] Hos 14,8 τὸνποιήσαντάσεκαὶμεθύσκοντάσεἀπὸτῶνἀγαθῶναὐτοῦhe who made you and satisfies you with every good thing of his Sir 32,13 *Is 7,20 μεμεθυσμένῳdrunk, drenched (in blood)-⋄שׁכר for MT ⋄שׂכרhired; *Hos 14,8 (ζήσονταικαὶ) μεθυσθήσονται(they shall live and) be satiated-(⋄חיה and) רוה for MT ⋄חיה (pi.) they shall growCf. HELBING 1928, 150; →TWNT "
μεθύω+V 0-4-6-2-0=121 Sm 1,13; 25,36; 1 Kgs 16,9; 21(20),16; Is 19,14 pass. of μεθύσκω; to be drunk 1 Sm 1,13; to be watered, to be drenched (of a garden) Is 58,11 → TWNT - http://www.glasovipisma.pbf.rs/phocadownload/knjige/greek lexicon for the septuagint.pdf
Qualifications for Elders
For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to Welch’s grape juice, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.[Titus 1:7-9]
Qualifications for Deacons
Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much Welch’s grape juice or fond of sordid gain, but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.[1 Timothy 3:8-10]
Taken from the @WithinReason ‘s “Pharisee Edition of the Holy Bible”.
You misrepresented what I stated. Read what I stated again please, and if you are honest (up to you to make that call), then see I never said any such thing:
"If you had done a word study on that text, and connected it to Titus, in both contexts, you would understand it is not speaking about 'amount' of alcohol. It is speaking about not being altogether slaves (even constantly thinking on) of alcohol, as many of the pagans, Gentiles (in their various temples, and false worship, etc) and even some Jews were. It is stating that a Deacon (etc) could not hold that office, while being enslaved altogether to alcohol.
When you desire to see that word study and context, you let me know, otherwise, please feel free to study to shew thyself approved unto God, and let go your inebriated theology. You have 'beer-goggle' theology. " - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-29#post-4204433
I specifically said it was contextually speaking about alcohol in 1 Timothy 3.Will you correct yourself about what I clearly stated? Or will you continue, as you have been?