Why did God harden Pharaoh’s heart, rather than let them go right away?

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Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#21
Jan 17, 2020
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#21
John146 said:
Yep, if you’re going to receive mercy, you’re going to have to do it God’s way. You can’t will it any other way. God has provided the way through His Son.

9:18 God does not harden Pharaoh's heart until Pharaoh has already rejected what God said. (See Ex 3:19) -foreknowledge, the Lord had not done anything to Pharaoh at this time, "I am sure". (Ex. 5:1,2) there is no hardening as of yet; now see (Ex 7:13; 8:15; 9:12; 10:1; 11:10; 14:8), the Lord hardens his heart.
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John146 said:
Yep, if you’re going to receive mercy, you’re going to have to do it God’s way. You can’t will it any other way. God has provided the way through His Son.

9:18 God does not harden Pharaoh's heart until Pharaoh has already rejected what God said. (See Ex 3:19) -foreknowledge, the Lord had not done anything to Pharaoh at this time, "I am sure". (Ex. 5:1,2) there is no hardening as of yet; now see (Ex 7:13; 8:15; 9:12; 10:1; 11:10; 14:8), the Lord hardens his heart.
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You are tipping the interpretation to make it say what you want.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.” Exodus 4:21 (KJV 1900) God told Moses he would do what you give credit to Pharaoh for doing.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#22
Jan 13, 2016
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#22
Dave-L said:
You are tipping the interpretation to make it say what you want.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.” Exodus 4:21 (KJV 1900) God told Moses he would do what you give credit to Pharaoh for doing.
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But the info in chapter 3 comes first, that the Lord knows Pharaoh will reject God’s word. Then God will harden his heart.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#23
#23
God would not have hardened the heart of Pharoah if Pharoah did not already possess a heart of that nature

God did not take a faithful man who observed His ways and decide to make him into a monster


Dave-L said:
“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18 (KJV 1900)
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people need to understand you have the Calvinistic perspective which has warped your perception of how God acts and how people respond

you are in such deep error it is almost becoming amusing except for the fact you are serious...in fact, I question your actual commitment to Christ your error is so bad. the opposition to the truth and the way you resist the truth actually reminds one of Pharaoh
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#24
Jan 17, 2020
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#24
John146 said:
But the info in chapter 3 comes first, that the Lord knows Pharaoh will reject God’s word. Then God will harden his heart.
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Pharaoh did just as God planned. You read your ideas into it.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#27
Jan 17, 2020
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#27
John146 said:
Pharaoh did just as God knew. 😉
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What was the basis of God's knowledge? His plan to harden Pharaoh's heart? Or betting Pharaoh would not change his mind and destroy God's plans, as you suggest?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#28
Jan 17, 2020
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#28
John146 said:
You’re reading Calvin’s fatalism into the passage.
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Calvin did not come up with this Paul did. “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18 (KJV 1900)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#29
Jan 13, 2016
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#29
Dave-L said:
Calvin did not come up with this Paul did. “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18 (KJV 1900)
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It’s not arbitrary. God has set the boundaries. Man can’t will it any other way.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#30
Feb 15, 2017
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#30
Is it possible that because the Pharos thought they were a god that God let him reject him?

the pharaoh was considered a god on earth, the intermediary between the gods & the people. ... When the pharaoh came to the throne he was instantly associated with Horus - the god who had defeated the forces of chaos and restored order - and when he died, he was associated with Osiris, the god of the dead. B(Pharo ancient history encyclopedia)
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#31
Jan 17, 2020
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#31
John146 said:
It’s not arbitrary. God has set the boundaries. Man can’t will it any other way.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?” Romans 2:4 (KJV 1900)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#32
Jan 13, 2016
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#32
Dave-L said:
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?” Romans 2:4 (KJV 1900)
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Amen! Leadeth thee to repentance, not forces one against their will.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#33
Jan 17, 2020
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#33
John146 said:
Amen! Leadeth thee to repentance, not forces one against their will.
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“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (KJV 1900)

Where do you find a capacity to not sin in the natural man?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#34
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#34
7seasrekeyed said:
God would not have hardened the heart of Pharoah if Pharoah did not already possess a heart of that nature

God did not take a faithful man who observed His ways and decide to make him into a monster




people need to understand you have the Calvinistic perspective which has warped your perception of how God acts and how people respond

you are in such deep error it is almost becoming amusing except for the fact you are serious...in fact, I question your actual commitment to Christ your error is so bad. the opposition to the truth and the way you resist the truth actually reminds one of Pharaoh
Click to expand...
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (KJV 1900)

Find anything in people to support your optimism about human nature.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#35
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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#35
Dave-L said:
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (KJV 1900)

Where do you find a capacity to not sin in the natural man?
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Nowhere, for all have sinned.

What’s at stake in this passage? Salvation? Inheritance?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#36
Jan 17, 2020
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#36
John146 said:
Nowhere, for all have sinned.

What’s at stake in this passage? Salvation? Inheritance?
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Why would God need to harden one of these if not to heap more severe punishment on them?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#38
Jan 17, 2020
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#38
John146 said:
What? Where did this come from?
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From our discussion about Pharaoh and his hard heart. You said he hardened his heart after God offered a chance to repent (nowhere mentioned in scripture). I say he was already hardened by nature and God made his heart even harder to punish him all the more.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#39
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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#39
Dave-L said:
From our discussion about Pharaoh and his hard heart. You said he hardened his heart after God offered a chance to repent (nowhere mentioned in scripture). I say he was already hardened by nature and God made his heart even harder to punish him all the more.
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Repent? No, but believe God’s word. God already knew Pharaoh’s heart. God knew Pharaoh would reject His word and in turn, God would harden his heart to show His power.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#40
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#40
John146 said:
Repent? No, but believe God’s word. God already knew Pharaoh’s heart. God knew Pharaoh would reject His word and in turn, God would harden his heart to show His power.
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Everybody rejects God's word. It was the miracles that would cause anyone to believe unless God first hardened their heart.
 
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