Jesus couldn't talk people into a saving faith? 🤷‍♂️

[NOV25]

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

Everything sounds good until the commentary. Pistis and Pisteuo are the two types of faith in scripture. One is the gift of God while the other is the human response to the persuasion of the Holy Spirit. Also when scripture calls for belief, it would be wrong to call for it if man had no choice.

We see in Acts that a unknown number of Pharisees did believe eventually and became followers of the way.

 

[John146]

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

Gentiles, not under the law, have an easier time seeing they are sinners in need of a Saviour....after the cross.

 

[Lightskin]

was Jesus inadequate

Yawn 🥱

 

[NotmebutHim]

No, Jesus was CERTAINLY NOT inadequate.

He knew full well that His words would not convince those who were hardened against Him. He wasn't surprised by that.

On the other hand, Christ also knew well that He WOULD convince people such as Saul of Tarsus. Even though Saul (later Paul the Apostle) was a devout Pharisee and an unabashed persecutor of Christians.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith?

They did not need to "muster" anything. They CHOSE to be wilfully blind, just like Calvinists choose to be wilfully blind.

So let's examine this passage since it is a very significant portion of Scripture.
(Verses have been arranged to fit with the sub-titles, and sub-title have also been organized to understand thematically what is being revealed. Therefore the verses do not necessarily follow the same order.)

PART I

JOHN 8: WILFULL REJECTION OF CHRIST EXPOSED

1. THE PHARISEES WERE WILFULLY BLIND, THEREFORE SHUT THEMSELVES OUT
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not... [Note: that was a wilful decision to disbelieve Christ] 13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true... 48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?... 52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death... 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

2. JESUS REFUTED AND REJECTED THEIR VILE ACCUSATIONS
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me... 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning... 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man....23 And He said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world... 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father... .

3. CHRIST AFFIRMS THAT HE IS SINLESS AND CONFIRMS THEIR WILFUL BLINDNESS
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? [Note: "Why do ye not believe" indicates a CONSCIOUS DECISION to either believe or not believe]

4. THE PHARISEES WERE SELF-CONDEMNED BECAUSE OF WILFUL UNBELIEF
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come... 37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you....43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word... 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

5. THE PHARISEES WERE IDENTIFIED AS CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me... 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

PART II

6. JESUS IS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD, AND DESIRES TO GIVE LIFE TO THE WORLD
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life... 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. [Note: "If a man" confirms that whosoever will may come to Christ and obey Him ("keep my sayings")]

7. JESUS SPEAKS TO THE WORLD -- ALL HUMANITY
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

8. JESUS TESTIFIES OF HIS HEAVENLY ORIGIN, WITNESSED BY THE FATHER, WHO WAS ALWAYS WITH HIM
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself,yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go... 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.1 9 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also... 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him...50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth... 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

9. THOSE WHO WILFULLY REJECT THE DEITY OF CHRIST ARE DAMNED
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins... 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM [he], and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things... 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. [Note: I AM should have been capitalized without the he in italics, since Jesus is the I AM, and every Jew would know that I AM is their God (Exodus 3)]

10. THE UNSAVED ARE IN BONDAGE TO SIN
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

11. MANY BELIEVED WHILE JESUS SPOKE BUT THEY WERE SUPERFICIAL
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

12. GOD HAD A SPECIFIC TIME FOR THE CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as He taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on Him; for His hour was not yet come... 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Just like many today, the Pharisees WILFULLY rejected the deity of Christ and His testimony that He had come from God. They could have chosen to repent and believe but they hardened their hearts.

 

[NOV25]

PART II

6. JESUS IS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD, AND DESIRES TO GIVE LIFE TO THE WORLD
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life... 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. [Note: "If a man" confirms that whosoever will may come to Christ and obey Him ("keep my sayings")]

7. JESUS SPEAKS TO THE WORLD -- ALL HUMANITY
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

8. JESUS TESTIFIES OF HIS HEAVENLY ORIGIN, WITNESSED BY THE FATHER, WHO WAS ALWAYS WITH HIM
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself,yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go... 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.1 9 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also... 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him...50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth... 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

9. THOSE WHO WILFULLY REJECT THE DEITY OF CHRIST ARE DAMNED
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins... 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM [he], and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things... 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. [Note: I AM should have been capitalized without the he in italics, since Jesus is the I AM, and every Jew would know that I AM is their God (Exodus 3)]

10. THE UNSAVED ARE IN BONDAGE TO SIN
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

11. MANY BELIEVED WHILE JESUS SPOKE BUT THEY WERE SUPERFICIAL
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

12. GOD HAD A SPECIFIC TIME FOR THE CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as He taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on Him; for His hour was not yet come... 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

🤦‍♂️ Oh @Nehemiah6 what fool have you copied and pasted this jumbled mess from?

 

[notuptome]

Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

The religious folks do not need a Savior. Only sinners see their need of redemption. Pharisees are no different in their self assured opinion of themselves than the Calvinist who never takes responsibility for their sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[14meatcc]

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables, because they seeing, do not see: and hearing, they hear not, neither understand.
14 So in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which prophecy saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.
15 For this people’s heart is waxed fat, and their ears are dull of hearing, and with their eyes they have winked, lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their hearts, and should return, that I might heal them.
16 [c]But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

The Gospels show that the disciples did not always understand Jesus, even when He wasn't speaking in parables. Jesus also prophesized about his death, and meaning of his death, in vague ways, and the disciples could not really understand who Jesus was until this happened in retrospect. Basically anyone who met Jesus saw that he was sent from God (except hardline Pharisees and Saducees) either as a prophet like Moses or Elijah, rabbi, or as the Messiah. Plenty of times in the Gospels people were "amazed" or "afraid" when they heard Jesus or saw his miracles, transfiguration, etc. The disciples on their own will followed him for three years. However to show who He really was and that eternal life exists, He had to die and be resurrected on the third day.

There were many people especially sick people whom Jesus cured who believed Jesus quickly. This is understandable if you are the recipient of a miracle (from being lame to walking, blind to seeing, etc.) but for bystanders or people not desperate for a cure, like the disciples, it was still a bit unclear who Jesus was. The Pharisees appear to be familiar with healings, since they were not too impressed and even told Jesus not to heal on the Sabbath. So the only "proof" had to be the resurrection.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

If Jesus did not rise, would there be any Christians here today?

 

[Journeyman]

Jesus couldn't talk people into a savingfaith?

He talked me into a saving faith.

 

[notuptome]

Jesus did not come to talk Israel into saving faith. He came to die for sinners that He might redeem them from their sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hungry]

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

Those who think they know everything are impossible to teach. That’s why those who seek, find. It is those who know they are lost heed directions. The Pharisees were blind guides. Not only did they not know they were lost but they convinced others to follow.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Pharisees were blind guides.

The Calvinists are also blind guides. They have been brainwashed into a certain mode of interpretation (just like the Pharisees) and cannot see the truth when it is presented.

 

[Nehemiah6]

🤦‍♂️ Oh @Nehemiah6 what fool have you copied and pasted this jumbled mess from?

The *fool* is myself and I have not pasted and copied anything. I have analyzed and summarized what is in that chapter, not merely reproduced it.

I have shown you THE TRUTH of that chapter, but you have wilfully rejected it, just like the Pharisees wilfully rejected Christ. So when you give account before God, He will ask you why you rejected the truth which was presented to you.

 

[garee]

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Does a prevenient gracer' ponder how he could muster a saving faith of his own strength but the Pharisees could not? I mean these men witnessed Jesus preform miracles and teach with authority like no man had ever taught but still they couldn't muster a saving faith? Is modern man simply smarter than the pharisees or was Jesus inadequate in his persuasiveness or ability to preach the gospel? Erroneous.

I would offer.. The Son of man, Jesus like us cannot muster any strength other than by crying out to our father as His God for strength to do the will of God. We as did Jesus our perfect example, work with him (Emmanuel) who empowers us.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The faithless Jew is used to represent unconverted mankind.It used in demonstration to the world had come to a end. The time of reformation came .The great tribulation began and continues to the last day. .Satan is bound from deceiving the all nations into believing we do need a man sen to teach us . The new tongue of God opened the way to all the nations . A Great Jubilee for the believer. A Great Tribulation to the outward Jew. One like never before or ever again.

One demonstration was the promise. Crucified once.

If any man has not the born again Spirit of Christ .They simply do not belong to him .

God in those last days spoke directly through His Son the High prophet Priest who declared the will of his father, in word. (to will). And in deed (to do) (Philippians 2.)

Marking the lasts days as a living parable .Jesus strengthened to do the will of the father.The food the disciples at first knew not of .Doing the work of the gospel the meat .

The first clue .

verse 15 You judge after the flesh "what the eyes see the temporal"

I believe teaches us how we can see the eternal .

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Moses(law) and Elias (prophets the testimony) used to represent the two working together (the Father and the Son).

verse 20 below shows how the father kept the hands of men from destroying the integrity of the two witnesses. (sola scriptura) God's perfect loving Law.

20 no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

They judged him by what the eyes see no further than the tip of their faithless nose. This shows us they had no faith that could please God. . Even already having been informed the flesh of Jesus profits for zero. Those disciples walked away in unbelief (no faith)

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

The word of God the spiritual seed has no place in the corrupted flesh and blood. No power from it.

Again the father as if time stood still gave His Son a safe path as the light unto his feet.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Last days living parable .

 

[NOV25]

Matthew 16:15-18
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Notice Peter’s words for what they are, a confession of faith in Jesus and look at the Lord’s response.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

You are blessed Peter because my Father has given you this understanding, this belief.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Peter, the rock upon which the church is built was given faith from the Father, an example of how all the Church will be saved.

This isn’t complicated folks. If you are Christian, the belief you have has been given by the Father.

So when we look at John 8 we see a very simple exchange, it’s not complicated.

You are of your father the devil, this is evident by your inability to hear my words. My Father has promised, before creation, to give me sheep and promised they will hear my voice when I speak the words of my Father. If you hear my words and keep them, you are blessed by the Father for He has given you this ability...

 

[Runningman]

"18For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

20Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe." 1 Corinthians 1:18-21

The gospel is counterintuitive to what the world deems to be wisdom, meaning that believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior for salvation and forgiveness of trespasses against God is not a logical conclusion.

Nothing has changed. People didn't understand in the time of Jesus and many don't understand today.

Our ability to believe this is undeniable proof that it's divine and the Christian has eternal salvation.