Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

[1ofthem]

It's only imaginary. They were the same gifts the Apostles had and the same Baptism of the Holy Spirit no doubt from Paul's hands. Why did he want to visit Rome to impart spiritual gifts if they came in another way than through an apostle's hands?

It's just imaginary, what???? So was Paul just writing about a fairy tale in Corinthians????? If so, what else do you think was made up or just imaginary in the Bible?

 

[Dave-L]

It's just imaginary, what???? So was Paul just writing about a fairy tale in Corinthians????? If so, what else do you think was made up or just imaginary in the Bible?

Your idea of the gifts doesn't compare to the originals.

 

[Dino246]

It's only imaginary. They were the same gifts the Apostles had and the same Baptism of the Holy Spirit no doubt from Paul's hands. Why did he want to visit Rome to impart spiritual gifts if they came in another way than through an apostle's hands?

You win! Most ridiculous statement of the day!

 

[Nehemiah6]

The gifts have not ceased. They will not cease until that which is perfect has come. Do you see anything perfect here on earth?

Most of the spiritual gifts have not ceased, but some of them have definitely ceased, as Paul prophesied they would.

"That which is perfect" is also "that which is COMPLETE" (same word) and the Bible was completed by about 95 AD. So there was no further need for (1) prophesy, (2) tongues, and (3) supernatural knowledge. Indeed the apostle John made it very clear that nothing more was to be added to the book of Revelation or the Bible (since Revelation was the last book).

 

[Dino246]

Most of the spiritual gifts have not ceased, but some of them have definitely ceased, as Paul prophesied they would.

"That which is perfect" is also "that which is COMPLETE" (same word) and the Bible was completed by about 95 AD. So there was no further need for (1) prophesy, (2) tongues, and (3) supernatural knowledge. Indeed the apostle John made it very clear that nothing more was to be added to the book of Revelation or the Bible (since Revelation was the last book).

If you believe that the only use of prophecy and tongues was for the creation of the NT, then of course you will might believe there is no further need for them. However, as it is not the only use, your conclusion is flawed. God still speaks specifically to His kids through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He just isn't adding to Scripture.

 

[G2RBeliever]

I'm a former Pentecostal who could not verify that Pentecostalism is founded on God's word.

Ok,good as long as you're NOT a former believer!

Denominations are not God's plan but are based on men's interpretation.

Live in and by the word of God,revealed by the Spirit,pray always for His will and plan for YOU.

Try the spirits and follow Jesus' commands,trust in " what He says. "

 

[Dave-L]

Ok,good as long as you're NOT a former believer!

Denominations are not God's plan but are based on men's interpretation.

Live in and by the word of God,revealed by the Spirit,pray always for His will and plan for YOU.

Try the spirits and follow Jesus' commands,trust in " what He says. "

In my experience, I have greater faith staying with scripture and historic mainline Christianity. And less confusion and emotionally based mood swings which dominated my former walk.

 

[presidente]

I studied basic Pentecostal writings. Taught others how to speak in tongues. Did all the things Pentecostals do. But found all of those beliefs foreign to scripture. The more I studied the more errors I found.

Your objections to spiritual gifts and the framework you try to squeeze scripture through is foreign to scripture.

 

[presidente]

God is no longer bring new prophecy. We have the perfect law or whole sealed up till the end of time with seven seals .

This is not the teaching of scripture. The Bible does not teach that God does not give prophecies. Prophecies were given after James referred to the 'perfect law of liberty' disproving your point, and your interpretation of the word 'perfect' in this case.

There are no laws missing in the perfect book of the law prophecy by which we could know God more intimately . Signs and wonder seeker seek after more than he has reveled through the idea of outward sign of self edification. self pride.

I have pointed out to you numerous times that Paul says that he that speaks in tongues edifies himself and 'I would that ye all spake with tongues.' Therefore, self-edification is not an evil thing. You interpret it to refer to self-pride. You clearly misinterpret the scriptures. Isaiah wrote of those whose ears were dull of hearing.

The apostles prayed for God to stretch forth his hands and do signs and wonders for the sake of Jesus. Their motive was not unbelief. There is no law in the Bible forbidding the righteous from requesting a sign for a righteous purpose. Or do you think the Bible is an imperfect law?

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is not the teaching of scripture. The Bible does not teach that God does not give prophecies.

However, the Bible clearly teaches that PROPHECIES WOULD COME TO AN END. Believe it. (1 Cor 13:8)

REVELATION 22: CLOSES GENUINE PROPHECIES FROM GOD
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"If any man shall add unto these things" = IF ANY MAN WILL BRING ADDITIONAL PROPHECIES

Since Revelation is the last book in the Bible, whatever prophecies were necessary were completed right there. Which means that all modern prophetic claims ARE BOGUS.

 

[Dave-L]

Your objections to spiritual gifts and the framework you try to squeeze scripture through is foreign to scripture.

My outline https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-holy-spirit-in-acts-according-to-acts.191024/ shows only the passages in Acts scripture supports. Any of the others involve adding to scripture if you make them say otherwise. Faith comes from hearing the word. So you cannot have true faith if you add to them.

 

[Dino246]

However, the Bible clearly teaches that PROPHECIES WOULD COME TO AN END. Believe it. (1 Cor 13:8)

REVELATION 22: CLOSES GENUINE PROPHECIES FROM GOD
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"If any man shall add unto these things" = IF ANY MAN WILL BRING ADDITIONAL PROPHECIES

Since Revelation is the last book in the Bible, whatever prophecies were necessary were completed right there. Which means that all modern prophetic claims ARE BOGUS.

Only if every prophecy God ever gave was intended by Him to become Scripture. That's demonstrably false. Philip's daughters prophesied, but not a single prophecy of theirs is recorded in Scripture. Agabus was known as a prophet prior to his warning about the coming famine, so he must have prophesied reliably before that time.

God still speaks; He just isn't adding to Scripture today.

 

[Lafftur]

You win! Most ridiculous statement of the day!

Dino, thank you! I do love to laugh! I so enjoy the way you respond to nonsense...

 

[Gregoryp]

yes, my landlord started a chapel many years ago, they were catholics but left in disgust a long time ago. When I was sharing my gifts with him, he dismissed them, and said those gifts are no longer given out, as the bible covers everything now. Mankind just needs the bible to be shared with them apparently. I am experiencing it first hand and know differently.

 

[Lafftur]

I'm a former Pentecostal who could not verify that Pentecostalism is founded on God's word.

I was AOG for awhile. Visited several independents. WoF for a while. Saw it all.

Dave-L, we all have a story to tell about our experiences with denominations. Eventually we realize they're right about some things and wrong about others.

It's best to not follow man at all. Pour your heart out to God and desire a relationship with Him. Go back and read the Bible and ask God to teach you what it says and what it means.

Just sincerely seek God with all your heart, forgive everyone, stay away from commentaries. Stick with the scriptures of the Holy Bible. Pray and ask God's Holy Spirit to teach you, He will.

1 John 2:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


God bless you, Dave-L. You are loved!

 

[presidente]

My outline https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-holy-spirit-in-acts-according-to-acts.191024/ shows only the passages in Acts scripture supports. Any of the others involve adding to scripture if you make them say otherwise. Faith comes from hearing the word. So you cannot have true faith if you add to them.

Even in such a brief diagram, you have ideas that you cannot back up with scripture, as I report there. Acts does not say that the apostles gave anyone the Holy Spirit. It certainly says nothing about the apostles giving Philip the Holy Ghost. The ones put forward to serve as the seven were supposed to be filled with the Holy Ghost before the apostles laid hands on them. It was a requirement they gave.

Also, Ananias said he was sent to Paul that he might receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost. So Ananias was filled with the Holy Ghost.

To think that the apostles gave the Holy Spirit to those they laid hands on is problematic considering the statements of John the Baptist and Christ. John spoke of the One Who came after him baptizing with the Holy Spirit. Jesus spoke of the Father giving the Holy Spirit. 'Proceedeth forth from the apostles' is not in any version of the Nicene Creed, after all. The apostles were instrumental in the Samaritans receiving the Spirit and in others receiving spiritual gifts in some cases but not in all cases. But Ananias was instrumental in Saul of Tarsus being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[presidente]

However, the Bible clearly teaches that PROPHECIES WOULD COME TO AN END. Believe it. (1 Cor 13:8)

REVELATION 22: CLOSES GENUINE PROPHECIES FROM GOD
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"If any man shall add unto these things" = IF ANY MAN WILL BRING ADDITIONAL PROPHECIES

Uh-oh. Is that last line of yours intended to actually be added into the book of Revelation? Because the book does not say that.

It is foolish and unbiblical to say that if someone receives a prophecy that he adds it to the Bible, unless he actually does so. In fact, the Bible proves that prophecies existed that were not added to the Bible. Samuel was a prophet whose words did not fall to the ground between that one prophecy of his we read when he was a child and the time he was an old man. Saul's servant knew he could go to Samuel about lost donkeys. Yet we have no record of all the lost donkeys and farm animals other people went to Samuel about. We do not know what the prophets who met Saul from Shiloh prophesied, or the prophecies Saul prophesied. The Bible tells us that they and he prophesied, but the prophecies aren't in there. Micaiah had prophesied things about Ahab that he didn't like before the one prophecy of his we read in scripture.

And early in Revelation John is told to write a scroll. Toward the end, he added a warning about not adding to the scroll.

And if you are a dispensationalist, then you should admit that there will be two witnesses prophesying after the book of Revelation is complete.

 

[presidente]

However, the Bible clearly teaches that PROPHECIES WOULD COME TO AN END. Believe it. (1 Cor 13:8)

REVELATION 22: CLOSES GENUINE PROPHECIES FROM GOD
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"If any man shall add unto these things" = IF ANY MAN WILL BRING ADDITIONAL PROPHECIES

Since Revelation is the last book in the Bible, whatever prophecies were necessary were completed right there. Which means that all modern prophetic claims ARE BOGUS.

Uh-oh. Is that last line of yours intended to actually be added into the book of Revelation? Because the book does not say that.

It is foolish and unbiblical to say that if someone receives a prophecy that he adds it to the Bible, unless he actually does so. In fact, the Bible proves that prophecies existed that were not added to the Bible. Samuel was a prophet whose words did not fall to the ground between that one prophecy of his we read when he was a child and the time he was an old man. Saul's servant knew he could go to Samuel about lost donkeys. Yet we have no record of all the lost donkeys and farm animals other people went to Samuel about. We do not know what the prophets who met Saul from Shiloh prophesied, or the prophecies Saul prophesied. The Bible tells us that they and he prophesied, but the prophecies aren't in there. Micaiah had prophesied things about Ahab that he didn't like before the one prophecy of his we read in scripture.

And early in Revelation John is told to write a scroll. Toward the end, he added a warning about not adding to the scroll.

And if you are a dispensationalist, then you should admit that there will be two witnesses prophesying after the book of Revelation is complete.

 

[wolfwint]

There’s a doctrine going around called Cessationism which teaches dat spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing have ceased since pentecost. This is completely bogous and asinine and unbiblical, even I speak in tongues sometimes and after I was born again I started seeing visions which were prophetic and actually came true aswell.


just like the bible says in Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


the only thing dat has ceased is peoples faith in Gods power as the bible says in 2 timothy 3:5 they have a form of godlyness but they deny the power off.

Lets go 2 the scriptures where there were many miracles done with the power of the holy spirit and where the holy spirit was poured out onto people after pentecost.

Also just 2 mention a prophecy from david in pslams Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

Acts 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Acts 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:



Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

Acts 9:40 peter raised a woman from the dead.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

So u see hear folks, many works and miracles and out poring of the holy spirit after Pentecost in acts.

Don’t be fooled by these silly erroneous doctrines which go totally against the bible which are purposely made by the enemy 2 deceive you and turn u away from the truth and 2 destroy ur faith.

Take authority against the demons God has given it 2 his children and don’t be fearful, don’t be weary, Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Are you a jew? Is Israel living in peace? Then why you claim Joel for you?
That you speaking in tongues and have visions says nothing. People in cults do also.
Do you not wonder that since 1901 these gifts are taught in combination with the baptism of the Holy Spirit? This baptism with the Holy Spirit was not taught before in the churchhistory. Take f.e. australia. Before 1908 you will not find people there which were baptised with the Holy Spirit in combination with speaking in tongues.

 

[bojack]

Are you a jew? Is Israel living in peace? Then why you claim Joel for you?
That you speaking in tongues and have visions says nothing. People in cults do also.
Do you not wonder that since 1901 these gifts are taught in combination with the baptism of the Holy Spirit? This baptism with the Holy Spirit was not taught before in the churchhistory. Take f.e. australia. Before 1908 you will not find people there which were baptised with the Holy Spirit in combination with speaking in tongues.

Before 1908 I don't even know what my great grandparents names were ..
This is in Acts 2, this is the church and the church has been here ever since ..
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: