Sweet potential in this crises...

[CharliRenee]

Hey guys, have you considered this?

I for one am concerned about the economy, because like many, if not all of us, this is hitting me up close and personal. Yup, a game changer for sure. Then yeah, I also start to fret about my loved ones. You know...are they all ok, will they be ok, physically and financially. So many potential concerns tempt my response to hold my breath and eek. .

However, my Lord keeps reminding me about drawing near, to trust Him fully. I am so grateful for His peace leaning in.

Today, something crossed my thoughts and I wanted to ask if you too had considered...

What if in all this calamity and threat of death to our physical bodies and our economy, many, some, or even just one was saved, wouldn't that be so amazing? What if this caused more of His to draw near, to carry on with the cause of Christ even more...

Wouldn't that be sooooo wonderful?

I am reminded…

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

 

[CharliRenee]

So have any of you considered? Surely so...

 

[Subhumanoidal]

So in the midst of all of this, the hope is that maybe one person gets saved, and that makes it wonderful?
Businesses failing, dreams crushed. People enduring the suffering of losing those they love. Thousands, or possibly hundreds of thousands, dying and likely going to hell with no hope of salvation. Stock market crashing and people loosing their money. The potential for homelessness to increase in the aftermath, or sooner. No doubt as tensions rise, and people are trapped in their houses, domestic violence will go up as fearful, cowardly control freaks are trapped in houses with the victims of their anger, day in and day out. Infected people suffering and in fear as their lives slip away and have no idea if they will survive or not. And more than this, just in the idea, of a maybe, that one person Might get saved as a result? I don't see the 'sweet potential' in all that pain, devastation and loss, especially since that 'sweet potential' is purely and entirely speculative and nothing more than a made up idea designed to ease your own fears.
No matter what good may eventually come out of this, the price is still too high to pay.

 

[JaumeJ]

Here on the east coasst of Spain it has been raining gently to strong for many days. This is quite a blessing because, as I had figured, while it had been quite warm all winter and of late, it has cooled down dramatically. Of my 35 years in Spain, I have never seen it rain so much, and so consistently gentle ever. It is wonderful. The air is even cleaner, though it was faitly OK always.

Now something that is disturbing. Out of Texas there is a man, politician, touting that the elderly would rather be left to die than to harm th economy.
Last week, also from the US, there was the thought that the elderly should be allowed to just die. Shades of Fascist philosophy, Who nexts, all democrats? All crippled? All those not liked by the ones in power to care for them????

Here in Spain there is an alarming number of rest home deaths. That also sends me off on a guided paranoia jaunt. This idea of allowing the elderly to just die is not just coming from the US.

I am 75, healthy within the parameters of certain common conditions for people such as I, and I am staying in. I do go out for essentians but even that is slowing down, post-poning certain meds prescribed for me. Should I contract this virus and die?

Since my own earliest childhood I have always wanted to be old. I would visit elderly neighbors, on e who had no legs and others who just needed someone to visit or run an errand. There was also Barbara, a woman not elderly but with no feet. I used to crawl through a hole in the back fence to get to her house. Now my motives were not innocent becaus she let me play in her wheelchair. I even had dreams of Barbara being able to walk. She was neat.

People are neat. Anyway I have always found it distateful at best when people refer to the murder or accidental deaths of elderly people as "Oh well , he or she was old." Not to be thought of this way, for only our Father should determine when a person is sto leave this age....................and so it goes. Plese forgive my rant, but I do believe all life is up to our Father, the Giver of all good. All blessing to all in Yeshua, and all who will be, amen.

 

[GodFoundMe]

I think it's both. The potential devastation could be great, but if Satan who comes to steal, kill, and destroy is getting some more dominion it won't last forever. God is sovereign and can still draw people to Him in this. I wouldn't say that makes things wonderful, but He knows when each of our numbers will be up. He'll have us here to love our neighbor and be His witnesses in sharing the gospel and His works, even while quarantined. If God calls individuals home, that's up to Him.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Here's an excerpt to consider from a recent Desiring God article concerning our walk as Christians when facing a threat like Coronavirus. It's called What Courage Might Corona Unleash?

‘I Fear No Loss’

In 1519, when the Black Death reached Zurich, Switzerland, home of pastor and Reformer Ulrich Zwingli, the disease eventually wiped out a third of the population. Zwingli had been on vacation. While everyone else fled the city, however, he courageously dove back in to care for and comfort the sick, and to tell them about the hope he had in Jesus.

As he risked his life, believing Christ still had many in his contaminated city (Acts 18:9–10) and would be with him in the perils (Isaiah 43:1–3; Matthew 28:20), he caught the disease and nearly died. But not in vain, and not without hope, for he suffered in the path of Love.

He wrote several poems in the throes of the sickness, with lines like these:

In faith and hope
Earth I resign.
Secure of heaven.
For I am Thine.​

And then later, as his symptoms worsened:

He harms me not,
I fear no loss,
For here I lie
Beneath thy cross.​

Zwingli’s hope in heaven did not make him reckless or selfish in the face of sickness and death. It filled him with courage and unleashed him to see, and seek to meet, the needs of others. Knowing what was at stake, and what was waiting for him on the other side of death, he accepted the danger, at enormous risk to himself, to care for the suffering, especially those destined for eternal suffering.

May the same be true of us, as Christians move toward, not away from, neighbors in need; as churches open our arms and doors of hospitals become full and overwhelmed; as we embrace the right risks, at the right times, and so fill our fearful cities with the name of Jesus.

Now Is the Time

The gospel is always drowned out more easily in peacetime. What is there to fear? But not in a pandemic. When a cholera outbreak came to London, Charles Spurgeon admonished everyone in Christ,

Now is the time for all of you who love souls. You may see men more alarmed than they are already; and if they should be, mind that you avail yourselves of the opportunity of doing them good. You have the Balm of Gilead; when their wounds smart, pour it in. You know of Him who died to save; tell them of Him. Lift high the cross before their eyes. Tell them that God became man that man might be lifted to God. Tell them of Calvary, and its groans, and cries, and sweat of blood. Tell them of Jesus hanging on the cross to save sinners. Tell them that —

“There is life for a look at the Crucified One.”

Tell them that He is able to save to the uttermost all them that come unto God by Him. Tell them that He is able to save even at the eleventh hour, and to say to the dying thief, “today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise.”​

.
God has prepared good works for us (Ephesians 2:10). He has prepared us for days like these. He plans to show the immeasurable riches of his kindness through simple acts of Christian courage in a world paralyzed and consumed by fear.

Father, in the name of Jesus, use your church.

~Marshall Segal​

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marshall Segal (@marshallsegal) is a writer and managing editor at desiringGod.org. He’s the author of Not Yet Married: The Pursuit of Joy in Singleness & Dating. He graduated from Bethlehem College & Seminary. He and his wife, Faye, have a son and live in Minneapolis.

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[shittim]

Thank you Deut- I see many in this life and time who, as Jesus said, would "hold to an outward form of godliness, denying the power thereof".
Others and more all the time are FINALLY rediscovering true faith in relationship with Christ.

 

[seoulsearch]

Hey there, beautiful CharliRenee,

I must confess that your thread had me thinking all morning while I was going through my regular routine. I have several thoughts to contribute, but am working on a separate thread so that I don't derail this one.

Like everyone else, I am trying to fight off a sense of panic during these challenging times, but I was absolutely horrified to read the news article about the Texan senator who is asking the elderly to put themselves at risk for the sake of the economy and the younger generations.

I couldn't help but think especially of our brave war veterans -- have they not been asked to sacrifice enough for the rest of us? Talk about adding insult to injury: "We used you when you were young -- thank goodness you survived, because now that you're old, we've found yet another way to use you for our own self-interests!"

Heaven forbid this should ever happen!!!

I thought it was awesome when JaumeJ shared with us his dream to grow older, and am terribly saddened that anyone would tell him he needs to "sacrifice" his dream. JaumeJ, may God bless you with many more healthy decades!!!

I have to confess that my thinking aligns more with Subhumanoidal's, partially because I'm not a big fan of "Crisis Conversion." Part of my journey through the Christian walk has been witnessing several people crying out to God in the middle of a crisis, then going right back to the actions that got them there as soon as things get better. I'm not saying this in judgment, seeing as even the most heartfelt believers do this as well (definitely me included!)

But what I had to ask God this morning was this:

"Lord, we all know the passage in which Jesus tells us that we are worth more than many sparrows to God (Matthew 10:31). But how many believers are worth the price of getting one unbeliever saved?" In other words, if one unbeliever is saved through this crisis, praise God!!! BUT, how many BELIEVING lives should we be willing to sacrifice for that to happen?

I don't know the answer -- that's up to God alone. Now as Christians, I know we should all be willing to raise our hands and sacrifice ourselves for the sake of others -- I don't mind sacrificing myself. But please don't ask me to sacrifice the older and vulnerable people in my life whom I love with all my heart.

And these are some of the things I think about as I watch vulnerable friends and family being forced to put their lives at risk every day in order to feed their families. If I had a newborn daughter, would I ask my elderly relatives to sacrifice themselves to give her a future?

Before jumping into the ocean, a flock of penguins will stand at the edge of the cliff, pushing a couple of fellow penguins off the edge in order to test for predators. If none of the "test penguins" are eaten, they know it's safe to jump into the water. So... Who wants to be a test penguin?

And as we all find ourselves adrift on a very modern-day Titanic, how do we decide which people should be pushed over the edge, and which ones should be given a chance to live?

 

[shittim]

If we belong to Christ, we are His, we no longer live to ourselves or our own dreams or wishes, we are His and we go where He directs us to do what He asks us to do. That is the great difference Jesus said would be with believers, that many would hold to an outward form and not know Him personally.

 

[Lynx]

About that theory that we should continue on with life as usual and let the elderly die or recover as they can... ALL THIS FOR MONEY?!

This dude is saying we should pretend life is normal so the economy will not slow down? REALLY?!

The economy will recover. It always does. Dead people won't recover. Long after this stuff has blown over, the people who could have been spared will still be dead... but we don't care because we want to safeguard our financial continuity?

If I were a betting man I would bet a month of paychecks that the Texas lt. governor is worried about his stocks dwindling.

 

[CharliRenee]

So in the midst of all of this, the hope is that maybe one person gets saved, and that makes it wonderful?
Businesses failing, dreams crushed. People enduring the suffering of losing those they love. Thousands, or possibly hundreds of thousands, dying and likely going to hell with no hope of salvation. Stock market crashing and people loosing their money. The potential for homelessness to increase in the aftermath, or sooner. No doubt as tensions rise, and people are trapped in their houses, domestic violence will go up as fearful, cowardly control freaks are trapped in houses with the victims of their anger, day in and day out. Infected people suffering and in fear as their lives slip away and have no idea if they will survive or not. And more than this, just in the idea, of a maybe, that one person Might get saved as a result? I don't see the 'sweet potential' in all that pain, devastation and loss, especially since that 'sweet potential' is purely and entirely speculative and nothing more than a made up idea designed to ease your own fears.
No matter what good may eventually come out of this, the price is still too high to pay.

I agree that it is devastating. I agree with your keeping it real. It was a thought that crossed my mind and I pray that in the midst of the darkness, His revealing is found.

I do not agree completely that it is designed to simply to ease my own fears. We are called to think on what is pure and lovely. Nothing more pure and right than ppl finding God or drawing near. A hope for revival is always good. I did not intend to deminish all the devastation and loss. I am sorry for that. It is heartbreaking and concerning. We need to keep praying.

Btw, it isn't speculative, I know several ppl drawing near, more so now, myself included. I do regret the title of the thread and I do regret how I gave the impression of making light of a horrible situation.
I do apologize to all for I do 100% get what you are saying in regards to that.

 

[CharliRenee]

I think it's both. The potential devastation could be great, but if Satan who comes to steal, kill, and destroy is getting some more dominion it won't last forever. God is sovereign and can still draw people to Him in this. I wouldn't say that makes things wonderful, but He knows when each of our numbers will be up. He'll have us here to love our neighbor and be His witnesses in sharing the gospel and His works, even while quarantined. If God calls individuals home, that's up to Him.

I agree about the devastation and loss too. I didn't mean to say it would make things wonderful, just that ppl drawing near and getting saved is wonderful. Yes yes yes @sharing the gospel.

 

[CharliRenee]

About that theory that we should continue on with life as usual and let the elderly die or recover as they can... ALL THIS FOR MONEY?!

This dude is saying we should pretend life is normal so the economy will not slow down? REALLY?!

The economy will recover. It always does. Dead people won't recover. Long after this stuff has blown over, the people who could have been spared will still be dead... but we don't care because we want to safeguard our financial continuity?

If I were a betting man I would bet a month of paychecks that the Texas lt. governor is worried about his stocks dwindling.

I agree it is imperative that we take care of the vulnerable first and foremost, that one life is more valuable than all the money in the world.

 

[CharliRenee]

Here on the east coasst of Spain it has been raining gently to strong for many days. This is quite a blessing because, as I had figured, while it had been quite warm all winter and of late, it has cooled down dramatically. Of my 35 years in Spain, I have never seen it rain so much, and so consistently gentle ever. It is wonderful. The air is even cleaner, though it was faitly OK always.

Now something that is disturbing. Out of Texas there is a man, politician, touting that the elderly would rather be left to die than to harm th economy.
Last week, also from the US, there was the thought that the elderly should be allowed to just die. Shades of Fascist philosophy, Who nexts, all democrats? All crippled? All those not liked by the ones in power to care for them????

Here in Spain there is an alarming number of rest home deaths. That also sends me off on a guided paranoia jaunt. This idea of allowing the elderly to just die is not just coming from the US.

I am 75, healthy within the parameters of certain common conditions for people such as I, and I am staying in. I do go out for essentians but even that is slowing down, post-poning certain meds prescribed for me. Should I contract this virus and die?

Since my own earliest childhood I have always wanted to be old. I would visit elderly neighbors, on e who had no legs and others who just needed someone to visit or run an errand. There was also Barbara, a woman not elderly but with no feet. I used to crawl through a hole in the back fence to get to her house. Now my motives were not innocent becaus she let me play in her wheelchair. I even had dreams of Barbara being able to walk. She was neat.

People are neat. Anyway I have always found it distateful at best when people refer to the murder or accidental deaths of elderly people as "Oh well , he or she was old." Not to be thought of this way, for only our Father should determine when a person is sto leave this age....................and so it goes. Plese forgive my rant, but I do believe all life is up to our Father, the Giver of all good. All blessing to all in Yeshua, and all who will be, amen.

Your story of crawling through a hole to get to her, to play with her wheelchair is touching. Yes, the elderly matter, 100%. Every life is priceless. Your rant was not a rant but a blessing.

It is sad that greed and fear runs a muck, wanting to put $ over lives. I do NOT believe we should let the chips fall where they may with regards to lives, we are called to be good stewards of one another, ppl matter 100%, but I do believe it is in His hands, like you said.

 

[CharliRenee]

Here's an excerpt to consider from a recent Desiring God article concerning our walk as Christians when facing a threat like Coronavirus. It's called What Courage Might Corona Unleash?

‘I Fear No Loss’​

​

In 1519, when the Black Death reached Zurich, Switzerland, home of pastor and Reformer Ulrich Zwingli, the disease eventually wiped out a third of the population. Zwingli had been on vacation. While everyone else fled the city, however, he courageously dove back in to care for and comfort the sick, and to tell them about the hope he had in Jesus.​

​

As he risked his life, believing Christ still had many in his contaminated city (Acts 18:9–10) and would be with him in the perils (Isaiah 43:1–3; Matthew 28:20), he caught the disease and nearly died. But not in vain, and not without hope, for he suffered in the path of Love.​

​

He wrote several poems in the throes of the sickness, with lines like these:​

​

In faith and hope​

Earth I resign.​

Secure of heaven.​

For I am Thine.​

​

And then later, as his symptoms worsened:​

​

He harms me not,​

I fear no loss,​

For here I lie​

Beneath thy cross.​

​

Zwingli’s hope in heaven did not make him reckless or selfish in the face of sickness and death. It filled him with courage and unleashed him to see, and seek to meet, the needs of others. Knowing what was at stake, and what was waiting for him on the other side of death, he accepted the danger, at enormous risk to himself, to care for the suffering, especially those destined for eternal suffering.​

​

May the same be true of us, as Christians move toward, not away from, neighbors in need; as churches open our arms and doors of hospitals become full and overwhelmed; as we embrace the right risks, at the right times, and so fill our fearful cities with the name of Jesus.​

​

Now Is the Time​

​

The gospel is always drowned out more easily in peacetime. What is there to fear? But not in a pandemic. When a cholera outbreak came to London, Charles Spurgeon admonished everyone in Christ,​

​

Now is the time for all of you who love souls. You may see men more alarmed than they are already; and if they should be, mind that you avail yourselves of the opportunity of doing them good. You have the Balm of Gilead; when their wounds smart, pour it in. You know of Him who died to save; tell them of Him. Lift high the cross before their eyes. Tell them that God became man that man might be lifted to God. Tell them of Calvary, and its groans, and cries, and sweat of blood. Tell them of Jesus hanging on the cross to save sinners. Tell them that —​

​

“There is life for a look at the Crucified One.”​

​

Tell them that He is able to save to the uttermost all them that come unto God by Him. Tell them that He is able to save even at the eleventh hour, and to say to the dying thief, “today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise.”​

.​

God has prepared good works for us (Ephesians 2:10). He has prepared us for days like these. He plans to show the immeasurable riches of his kindness through simple acts of Christian courage in a world paralyzed and consumed by fear.​

​

Father, in the name of Jesus, use your church.​

​

~Marshall Segal​

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marshall Segal (@marshallsegal) is a writer and managing editor at desiringGod.org. He’s the author of Not Yet Married: The Pursuit of Joy in Singleness & Dating. He graduated from Bethlehem College & Seminary. He and his wife, Faye, have a son and live in Minneapolis.

God bless you!

~Deut

Love@
n faith and hope
Earth I resign.
Secure of heaven.
For I am Thine.


And then later, as his symptoms worsened:

He harms me not,
I fear no loss,
For here I lie
Beneath thy cross.


It is so important to be helpers, as you said, to deeply care in our actions, and to stand in our faith.

I stand in agreement Marshall Segal...

Father, in the name of Jesus, use your church.​

​

Thanks Deut and God Bless you.​

 

[CharliRenee]

Hey there, beautiful CharliRenee,

I must confess that your thread had me thinking all morning while I was going through my regular routine. I have several thoughts to contribute, but am working on a separate thread so that I don't derail this one.

Like everyone else, I am trying to fight off a sense of panic during these challenging times, but I was absolutely horrified to read the news article about the Texan senator who is asking the elderly to put themselves at risk for the sake of the economy and the younger generations.

I couldn't help but think especially of our brave war veterans -- have they not been asked to sacrifice enough for the rest of us? Talk about adding insult to injury: "We used you when you were young -- thank goodness you survived, because now that you're old, we've found yet another way to use you for our own self-interests!"

Heaven forbid this should ever happen!!!

I thought it was awesome when JaumeJ shared with us his dream to grow older, and am terribly saddened that anyone would tell him he needs to "sacrifice" his dream. JaumeJ, may God bless you with many more healthy decades!!!

I have to confess that my thinking aligns more with Subhumanoidal's, partially because I'm not a big fan of "Crisis Conversion." Part of my journey through the Christian walk has been witnessing several people crying out to God in the middle of a crisis, then going right back to the actions that got them there as soon as things get better. I'm not saying this in judgment, seeing as even the most heartfelt believers do this as well (definitely me included!)

But what I had to ask God this morning was this:

"Lord, we all know the passage in which Jesus tells us that we are worth more than many sparrows to God (Matthew 10:31). But how many believers are worth the price of getting one unbeliever saved?" In other words, if one unbeliever is saved through this crisis, praise God!!! BUT, how many BELIEVING lives should we be willing to sacrifice for that to happen?

I don't know the answer -- that's up to God alone. Now as Christians, I know we should all be willing to raise our hands and sacrifice ourselves for the sake of others -- I don't mind sacrificing myself. But please don't ask me to sacrifice the older and vulnerable people in my life whom I love with all my heart.

And these are some of the things I think about as I watch vulnerable friends and family being forced to put their lives at risk every day in order to feed their families. If I had a newborn daughter, would I ask my elderly relatives to sacrifice themselves to give her a future?

Before jumping into the ocean, a flock of penguins will stand at the edge of the cliff, pushing a couple of fellow penguins off the edge in order to test for predators. If none of the "test penguins" are eaten, they know it's safe to jump into the water. So... Who wants to be a test penguin?

And as we all find ourselves adrift on a very modern-day Titanic, how do we decide which people should be pushed over the edge, and which ones should be given a chance to live?

Spot on, I agree. We do not, should not even consider any life more valuable or worthy than another.

I apologize to you as I did sub, as you guys are right about putting lives over $ and it is shameful to even appear to make light of the loss, physically and financially.

I appreciate your honest feedback, so thank you.

God Bless

 

[seoulsearch]

Spot on, I agree. We do not, should not even consider any life more valuable or worthy than another.

I apologize to you as I did sub, as you guys are right about putting lives over $ and it is shameful to even appear to make light of the loss, physically and financially.

I appreciate your honest feedback, so thank you.

God Bless

No worries at all, Charli. Thank you so much for taking the time to make personalized, heartfelt replies. I know you only meant the best and that you would never make light of a tragic situation.

I apologize if I went overboard in my post. (I'm also going to postpone the thread I was working on, as I think it's too dark at the moment and, following your example, people need hope, not more talk of worse case scenarios.)

My mind was really cranking when I read the news this morning, and I'm sorry that some of my inner conflict spilled into your thread. Please, keep making us think!

 

[kaylagrl]

So in the midst of all of this, the hope is that maybe one person gets saved, and that makes it wonderful?
Businesses failing, dreams crushed. People enduring the suffering of losing those they love. Thousands, or possibly hundreds of thousands, dying and likely going to hell with no hope of salvation. Stock market crashing and people loosing their money. The potential for homelessness to increase in the aftermath, or sooner. No doubt as tensions rise, and people are trapped in their houses, domestic violence will go up as fearful, cowardly control freaks are trapped in houses with the victims of their anger, day in and day out. Infected people suffering and in fear as their lives slip away and have no idea if they will survive or not. And more than this, just in the idea, of a maybe, that one person Might get saved as a result? I don't see the 'sweet potential' in all that pain, devastation and loss, especially since that 'sweet potential' is purely and entirely speculative and nothing more than a made up idea designed to ease your own fears.
No matter what good may eventually come out of this, the price is still too high to pay.

God is still on the throne. If Corrie Ten Boom can praise God suffering the lost of her family while in a concentration camp during the Holocaust, so can we. God can use immense suffering to still bring people to him. I don't know why he is allowing this to happen at this point in history, but His ways are higher than our ways. I didn't hear anything of faith, of trust in God in your post. I don't think the OP is saying this is a wonderful moment in time. What she is saying there is a potential in all this suffering that one may come to God. One lost sinner coming home causes joy all over heaven.

 

[CharliRenee]

No worries at all, Charli. Thank you so much for taking the time to make personalized, heartfelt replies. I know you only meant the best and that you would never make light of a tragic situation.

I apologize if I went overboard in my post. (I'm also going to postpone the thread I was working on, as I think it's too dark at the moment and, following your example, people need hope, not more talk of worse case scenarios.)

My mind was really cranking when I read the news this morning, and I'm sorry that some of my inner conflict spilled into your thread. Please, keep making us think!

well tyou for your encouragement, hugs. However, you were and are a blessing. Btw, I and many if not all can relate to holding back the panic as it creeps in. Ugh!!!

I think it fair to say that we ALL need more of your threads!!!

BUT... I agree with turning the news off for a bit.

You helped me go to this....

I thank you and I thank God even more.

 

[CharliRenee]

God is still on the throne. If Corrie Ten Boom can praise God suffering the lost of her family while in a concentration camp during the Holocaust, so can we. God can use immense suffering to still bring people to him. I don't know why he is allowing this to happen at this point in history, but His ways are higher than our ways. I didn't hear anything of faith, of trust in God in your post. I don't think the OP is saying this is a wonderful moment in time. What she is saying there is a potential in all this suffering that one may come to God. One lost sinner coming home causes joy all over heaven.

Yes that was my intention. Thank you.

Love and agreement with One lost sinner coming home causes joy all over heaven!!!