History uniformly gives the origins of the Azusa St. "revivals". And it's not good by any stretch.
Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!
- Thread starter SpiritDove05
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
See how what you believe aligns with this simple chart of the Holy Spirit in Acts. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-holy-spirit-in-acts-according-to-acts.191024/
G
G2RBeliever
Guest
@Dave-L are you an athesist,?agnostic? Or just a lost unbeliever looking for the truth?
How does this support your doctrine? There are other scriptures about the Holy Spirit. Unsupported assumptions to. Where does the Bible say that the apostles gave Philip the baptism of the Holy Spirit? John said that Jesus baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
I believe sheep and goats is after the tribulation. Yet something Christ says "if you've done it to the least of these...my brethren". Thats YOU and ME. This is how we treat HIM! We are the brethren.
Some times it pays to read all pages. Well I noticed something.. leave it at that. I looked into some verses some posted. Take "Weakness of the flesh." Take a guess how some translated that. So much here is nothing more then speculation. If someone reads the word of God and still can't see or believe. They will never believe me.
I can post it but.. we all know doubt stops God. If you doubt your tossed all around and you will not receive anything from God. Faith moves God. Anything that is not faith is sin. Doubt stops God. Christ curses a tree and they are like WOW! He says? Have faith in God. Then talks about a moving a MTN. So man adds to His word. "what Jesus was really talking about" "What He really meant was". Or they ask you to test God.. NOT WISE! "You believe in healing? Go to hospital and heal them." NOT how it works.
Well a THEY have to believe. Christ could only lay hands on a few and teach in that one town because of? DOUBT! And he marvaled at their unbelief. Peter and John at the gate. What happen befofe "I don't have any silver or gold?" Always read before and after "So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them." AMEN PRAISE GOD! They said later.. a we didn't do this with our own power. Its FAITH IN THAT NAME!
Speculation and things added to verses that are not in that verse at all. Pauls thorn is a great example. Messenger of Satan came to buffet Paul. A thorn in the flesh. I love to see how it was org written. And whats said about that verse was .."there is many speculations as to what the thorn in the flesh was".. there ya go. How its org written... you would have to change add to Gods word to say it was some sickness or "eye"trouble. I don't add. There is verse in the word of God that says the gifts are gone.. stopped. If so..what in the world am I seeing today? Just one.. Satan can raise the dead now? Happens all the time.
Facts.. faith moves God. Doubt stops Him.
Some times it pays to read all pages. Well I noticed something.. leave it at that. I looked into some verses some posted. Take "Weakness of the flesh." Take a guess how some translated that. So much here is nothing more then speculation. If someone reads the word of God and still can't see or believe. They will never believe me.
I can post it but.. we all know doubt stops God. If you doubt your tossed all around and you will not receive anything from God. Faith moves God. Anything that is not faith is sin. Doubt stops God. Christ curses a tree and they are like WOW! He says? Have faith in God. Then talks about a moving a MTN. So man adds to His word. "what Jesus was really talking about" "What He really meant was". Or they ask you to test God.. NOT WISE! "You believe in healing? Go to hospital and heal them." NOT how it works.
Well a THEY have to believe. Christ could only lay hands on a few and teach in that one town because of? DOUBT! And he marvaled at their unbelief. Peter and John at the gate. What happen befofe "I don't have any silver or gold?" Always read before and after "So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them." AMEN PRAISE GOD! They said later.. a we didn't do this with our own power. Its FAITH IN THAT NAME!
Speculation and things added to verses that are not in that verse at all. Pauls thorn is a great example. Messenger of Satan came to buffet Paul. A thorn in the flesh. I love to see how it was org written. And whats said about that verse was .."there is many speculations as to what the thorn in the flesh was".. there ya go. How its org written... you would have to change add to Gods word to say it was some sickness or "eye"trouble. I don't add. There is verse in the word of God that says the gifts are gone.. stopped. If so..what in the world am I seeing today? Just one.. Satan can raise the dead now? Happens all the time.
Facts.. faith moves God. Doubt stops Him.
This is what Acts says without adding to it. It helps understand the rest of the scriptures including 1 Corinthians.
I'm a former Pentecostal who could not verify that Pentecostalism is founded on God's word.
God is no longer bring new prophecy. We have the perfect law or whole sealed up till the end of time with seven seals .
There are no laws missing in the perfect book of the law prophecy by which we could know God more intimately . Signs and wonder seeker seek after more than he has reveled through the idea of outward sign of self edification. self pride.
Like always we must be careful how we hear and see mixing it with faith the unseen interpretation of God that works in those who do exercise faith (the unseen eternal) .
Prophecy is the "interpretation God" it is after no man or men . We are not to seek after the private interpretations of men who makes sounds without meaning according to a sign and wonders false gospel .
No such thing as a "sign gift" From that point desiring more than he has reveled through prophecy things run astray
The gifts of God are spiritual not seen. God is not a man as us .
If you are going to discuss tongues we should begin in Isiah 28 the foundation of the doctrine. God mocking mankind with what is called stammering lips. The unbelievers who who mocked him refusing to believe all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) .
When looking at the foundation of tongues God has assigned a "sign" ( unbelief) to help us understand those who do seek after another source of faith which is really not faith at all but walking by sight as if the kingdom did come by observing the temporal thins on earth.
God assigned a sign of un-belief called falling back a sign they are under the judgement of God as slain in the Spirit . Men must catch them that fall backward or death could occur .
It does not represent healed in the Spirit .No signs are given to the believer .The last the sign of Jonas was fulfilled in Christ.
But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Isaiah 28:13
Who hopes for what is seen as a work they called self edifying .(look and see what I did ) . I made a noise without understanding.The same kind of idea that made Jesus into a circus seal .They said.. Do a miracle that we might see then we will believe. This was even after he warned them not to
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Its an evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonders gospel believe use prophecy God's interpretation as the one source of faith
Satanists use bibles
Therefore anyone possessing or reading one is a satanist.
Sarcasm
God is no longer adding to Scripture, which is a different issue. Not all prophecy is Scripture, as Scripture itself proves.
Fallacy: strawman argument.
Nonsense.
You stubbornly misrepresent the position that others hold.
Wrong. You still misrepresent the concept of "sign gift".
Please prove this from Scripture. Was manna invisible? Is healing invisible? Is a word of wisdom invisible?
Nowhere in Scripture is this called the "last sign".
Another strawman argument framed in nonsense.
No, you just made a post without understanding the topic about which you are writing.
The evil generation of Jesus' day did seek signs. I suppose there are a few people today who seek signs. Most of us just happen to experience or observe them without seeking them. God is still in the miracle business; those without faith can't perceive His hand at work.
Iow a product of false deductions.
Blinded via reasoning.
It is an excuse.
Not a good one. But an excuse.
But you are still a blind man with a poor excuse.
Pssst; if you take off the dark glasses you might could see.
You're missing a lot of mountains there charlie.
So you've been to one or two Pentecostal churches ( I use the word loosely here), and you are judging all the rest through your experiences. Maybe they were fakers where you went or maybe you turned a blind eye and was not willing....I don't know I can't judge them. I've never been to their church... same as you can't lump all Pentecostals together and judge them by the one or two that you have witnessed.
All I know is that the power of God is real. I've seen and witnessed it. I've also seen and witnessed the fake. There is a difference between the real and the fake, but I'm not going to throw out the real and take away from the Scriptures because there are some fakers out there. That would be ludicrous.
I studied basic Pentecostal writings. Taught others how to speak in tongues. Did all the things Pentecostals do. But found all of those beliefs foreign to scripture. The more I studied the more errors I found.
Dave you are asking a sign out of disbelief in the gifts. You are never going to see it, unless you seek God, have faith in his word, and let him have his way in your life and open up your eyes.
Who knows Dave, maybe God wants to give you one of the gifts, but you are letting the devil cheat you out of it? IDK...but seems to me instead of twisting and fighting against the Word of God maybe you should pray and search your heart.
Who knows Dave, maybe God wants to give you one of the gifts, but you are letting the devil cheat you out of it? IDK...but seems to me instead of twisting and fighting against the Word of God maybe you should pray and search your heart.
I'm only saying there is no evidence the gifts are for today. Including Tongues and Prophecy.
I'm not sure what type of Pentecostal church you went to or studied, but you cannot teach others to speak in tongues...that is false and fake for sure. Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit. It comes through the Spirit no man can teach another to speak in tongues or any of the other gifts of the Spirit. It is either the Spirit working in a man or else it is fake.
Why would these gifts not be for today? Don't you think they are needed today? Why would God give gifts and then take them back?