Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tamped With!!

SpiritDove05 · Mar 20, 2020

Here’s Verse comparisons between the (KJV) bible and the faulty (NIV) bible.

(KJV)
Matthew 17:21
However, this kind does not
go out except by prayer
and fasting.

(NIV)
Matthew 17:21
ooopppss!! Zilch!! Whole verse
missing, why???

Here we see an entire verse missing from the NIV, why would you remove an entire verse out of the bible?
Perhaps the writers are trying 2 hide something? Looks very suspicious 2 me!! Bible says in deu 4:2 you
shall not add nor detract from the word of God.

(KJV)
Mark 9:29
And he said unto them, This kind
can come forth by nothing, but
by prayer and fasting.

(NIV)
Mark 9:29
He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.

Now this is the time in the bible where the apostles in the bible couldnt cast a demon out of a child
and then jesus came and cast it out of the child and the apostles then said 2 him how come we couldnt
cast the demon out of the child and he said 2 them dis kind comes out by prayer and (fasting). Now in
the (KJV) it also says prayer and (fasting) but in the (NIV) it says prayer only, why is dis?

If you look at all through out history monks, preists and other types of religious people would fast
mortify their flesh and 2 strenghen themselves spirituly so that it wud be easyer for them 2 open
themselves up 2 the spiritual relm and 2 communicate with God more effectivly without any interference
from any demonic forces then a person can perceive Gods word better.

When we fast we de-clutter our bodies and detoxify ourselves and drain away impurities from our systems
which hence frees up our minds and also allows the holy spirit 2 move through us more easily.

Fasting is quite a big part of christianity and walking in the spirit and also quite a big part of
deliverence ministry, jesus also said we must deny our flesh, Matthew 16:24 so why has the (NIV)
taken this out of the verse? its quite an important element. it raises alot of questions?

(KJV)
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to
them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk
not after the flesh, but after the Spirit).

(NIV)
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
who are in Christ Jesus,

See the difference? wheres the 2nd part of the verse in the (NIV) version? Well lets look at the 1st
part. (There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus). what does it mean
2 be in christ? does it mean 2 believe in him? well even the demons believe and tremble james 2:19.
does it mean 2 follow christ? well 2 follow jesus is 2 deny urself and take up ur cross stated again
in Matthew 16:24. or does it mean 2 walk as christ walked?

well the bible clearly shows that jesus walked in the spirit. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the
flesh cannot please God. and we know that jesus pleased the father Matthew 17:5 "This is my beloved
Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him".and john 8:29 the father have not left me alone coz
i always do the things dat please him.

therefore we can conclude dat being in christ is 2 be in the spirit as he was, we must worship God
in spirit and in truth john 4:24 also pauls main enphesis through out the NT is to be born again
(circumcised in the heart) and 2 be in the spirit!! gal 5:16.

alot of people are being misslead by a tampering of the word and think their ok with God as long
as they just believe in christ without any form of repentence which is very evident in ur
avarage (so called christian) 2day! hence leaving dem with the idea dat they can also (sin) but
call on jesus and its ok! its because of deception like dis dat many people are dammed and on their
way 2 hell unfortunetly Matthew 7:13

(KJV)
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and
hearing by the word of God

(NIV)
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message,
and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

here we have 2 completley different paragraphs."faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"
how does a person get saved? dont they have 2 hear the word!! and wat is the bible? isnt it Gods word?
and isnt jesus christ the word dat became flesh? so dat would make the bible all about christ!! so
why does the (NIV) say " hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ".

so wats dis so called message dat the (NIV) is talking about? i cant find it, i mean there are tones
of messages in the bible anyway, some of dem are prophecys of jesus christ!! some are parables and
some are just some other prophetic talk.

Anyway faith doesnt come by "hearing the message" faith comes by hearing the gospel which is the
(good news) and the whole word of God which is the bible. so once again another twisting of the
scriptures again!!

Jackson123 · Mar 20, 2020

SpiritDove05 said:

Here’s Verse comparisons between the (KJV) bible and the faulty (NIV) bible.

(KJV)
Matthew 17:21
However, this kind does not
go out except by prayer
and fasting.

(NIV)
Matthew 17:21
ooopppss!! Zilch!! Whole verse
missing, why???

Here we see an entire verse missing from the NIV, why would you remove an entire verse out of the bible?
Perhaps the writers are trying 2 hide something? Looks very suspicious 2 me!! Bible says in deu 4:2 you
shall not add nor detract from the word of God.

(KJV)
Mark 9:29
And he said unto them, This kind
can come forth by nothing, but
by prayer and fasting.

(NIV)
Mark 9:29
He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.

Now this is the time in the bible where the apostles in the bible couldnt cast a demon out of a child
and then jesus came and cast it out of the child and the apostles then said 2 him how come we couldnt
cast the demon out of the child and he said 2 them dis kind comes out by prayer and (fasting). Now in
the (KJV) it also says prayer and (fasting) but in the (NIV) it says prayer only, why is dis?

If you look at all through out history monks, preists and other types of religious people would fast
mortify their flesh and 2 strenghen themselves spirituly so that it wud be easyer for them 2 open
themselves up 2 the spiritual relm and 2 communicate with God more effectivly without any interference
from any demonic forces then a person can perceive Gods word better.

When we fast we de-clutter our bodies and detoxify ourselves and drain away impurities from our systems
which hence frees up our minds and also allows the holy spirit 2 move through us more easily.

Fasting is quite a big part of christianity and walking in the spirit and also quite a big part of
deliverence ministry, jesus also said we must deny our flesh, Matthew 16:24 so why has the (NIV)
taken this out of the verse? its quite an important element. it raises alot of questions?

(KJV)
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to
them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk
not after the flesh, but after the Spirit).

(NIV)
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
who are in Christ Jesus,

See the difference? wheres the 2nd part of the verse in the (NIV) version? Well lets look at the 1st
part. (There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus). what does it mean
2 be in christ? does it mean 2 believe in him? well even the demons believe and tremble james 2:19.
does it mean 2 follow christ? well 2 follow jesus is 2 deny urself and take up ur cross stated again
in Matthew 16:24. or does it mean 2 walk as christ walked?

well the bible clearly shows that jesus walked in the spirit. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the
flesh cannot please God. and we know that jesus pleased the father Matthew 17:5 "This is my beloved
Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him".and john 8:29 the father have not left me alone coz
i always do the things dat please him.

therefore we can conclude dat being in christ is 2 be in the spirit as he was, we must worship God
in spirit and in truth john 4:24 also pauls main enphesis through out the NT is to be born again
(circumcised in the heart) and 2 be in the spirit!! gal 5:16.

alot of people are being misslead by a tampering of the word and think their ok with God as long
as they just believe in christ without any form of repentence which is very evident in ur
avarage (so called christian) 2day! hence leaving dem with the idea dat they can also (sin) but
call on jesus and its ok! its because of deception like dis dat many people are dammed and on their
way 2 hell unfortunetly Matthew 7:13

(KJV)
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and
hearing by the word of God

(NIV)
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message,
and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

here we have 2 completley different paragraphs."faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"
how does a person get saved? dont they have 2 hear the word!! and wat is the bible? isnt it Gods word?
and isnt jesus christ the word dat became flesh? so dat would make the bible all about christ!! so
why does the (NIV) say " hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ".

so wats dis so called message dat the (NIV) is talking about? i cant find it, i mean there are tones
of messages in the bible anyway, some of dem are prophecys of jesus christ!! some are parables and
some are just some other prophetic talk.

Anyway faith doesnt come by "hearing the message" faith comes by hearing the gospel which is the
(good news) and the whole word of God which is the bible. so once again another twisting of the
scriptures again!!

Did they deliberately delete some word?

Angela53510 · Mar 20, 2020

(NIV)
Mark 9:29
He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.

(NIV)
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message,
and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Here is the simple truth. The Textus Receptus, upon which the KJV is based, has all kinds of copyist mistakes. Esp. since the copies that Erasmus translated, were based on very late, corrupted manuscripts. Adding was very easy to do when copying manuscripts. Sometimes a margin note was incorporated into the text. Sometimes it was an original mistake, by a copyist. So, the TR has many mistakes, especially additions, that were copied for generations of copies. Lower Textual Criticism studies where and what century these mistakes were added. It is up to people to decide if they want a bunch of added words, or the original words which God gave through his writers.

So, the above texts, are more right than the KJV. I have looked at many old manuscripts and read studies. Jesus didn't add "fasting" nor was it ever in Matthew. Mark is the earliest manuscript, a lot of Luke and Matthew follow Mark's words. But sometimes, the copyists, remembering what they wrote in Mark, add it to Matthew. They are similar and called the "Synoptics" but that doesn't mean identical.

So my advice is to learn about manuscripts. I can give you some books and links if you want to understand these issues. I prefer to get the words that are closest to the original, not some late translation like the KJV, which is full of mistakes, because there were only 7 corrupted manuscripts in those days, and Erasmus' translation, (which they also used) has a lot of mistakes, sometimes back translating from Latin, and some things the RCC would not let him change.

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

You are in total error:

Here are the MSS that "and fasting" is in:

"... [Uncials] Aleph-2; C; D; E; F; G; H; K; L; M; O; S; U; V; W; X; Y

Gamma; Delta; Pi; Sigma; Phi; Omega

Cursives: MAJORITY; fam 1,13

Old Latin: (a); aur; (b); (c) d; f; ff2; g1; l; (n*) ; q; r1,2; Vulgate

Syriac: (peshitta) (harclean)

Coptic: bohairic-pt; mae; Armenian; Ethiopic-ppl

Also extant in 047; 055; 0211 ..." - A Closer Look; Early Manuscripts & The AV by Jack Moorman; page 68

ECF:

"... PSEUDO-CLEMENT OF ROME, Concerning Virginity (I 8:59)

ORIGEN, Matthew (I 10:479)

AMBROSE, Letters (III 10:459)

-------------------

MK. 9:29 "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting". The ANPF indexes the quotations to Matthew. ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 40

Additionally:

Ambrose:

"... And since they say that we ought not to fast, let them prove for what cause Christ fasted, unless it were that His fast might be an example to us. Lastly, in His later words He taught us that evil cannot be easily overcome except by our fasting, saying: "This kind of devils is not cast out but by prayer and fasting." Matthew 17:21 ..." - Ambrose, Letter 63; point 15. - CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 63 (Ambrose)

Augustine:

"... 116. Matthew goes on in the following terms: And when He had come to the multitude, there came to Him a certain man, kneeling down before Him, and saying, Lord, have mercy on my son; for he is lunatic, and sore vexed; and so on, down to the words, Howbeit this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. Both Mark and Luke record this incident, and that, too, in the same order, without any suspicion of a want of harmony. ..." - Augustine, Harmony of the Gospels, Book II; Chapter 58, point 116. - CHURCH FATHERS: Harmony of the Gospels, Book II, Chapter 58 (Augustine)

Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica, citing Jerome:

"... Objection 2. Further, every sin is either carnal or spiritual. Now, as Jerome says on Mark 9:28, "This kind" of demons "can go out by nothing, but by prayer and fasting: Diseases of the body are healed by fasting, diseases of the mind, by prayer." Therefore no other work of satisfaction is necessary. ..." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theolgica; Question 15, Article III; Objection 2. - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The means of making satisfaction (Supplementum, Q. 15)

It is also in the Jerome's Latin Vulgate, which he got from the original Vetus Latina, the real Vulgate in Latin, except Jerome places it at Matthew 17:20:

"... hoc autem genus non eicitur nisi per orationem et ieiunium ..." - ESword, Latin Vulgate (Jerome).

Finally -

"... It is quoted by such early church writers as Origen, Asterius, Hilary, Basil, Ambrose, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/matthew1721.htm

"... Among those critical text versions that contain the verse are Weymouth New Testament 1912, J.B. Phillips N.T. 1962, The New Berkeley Version in Modern English 1969, the Living Bible 1971, the Amplified Bible 1987, the [NASB 1995], The Last Days Bible 1999, The New Century Version 2005, the Holman Standard 2009 [in brackets], the New European Version 2010, The Voice 2012, the International Children’s Bible 2015 and the International Standard Version 2014 with NO brackets.

The entire verse of Matthew 17:21 is found in the Anglo-Saxon Gospels 1000 A.D., Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1534, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew’s Bible 1549, the Bishops’ Bible 1568, the Douay-Rheims 1582, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Beza N.T. 1599, Mace N.T. 1729, Whiston’s N.T. 1745, John Wesley’s N.T. 1755, Worsley Version 1770, Haweis N.T. 1795, Living Oracles 1835, Sawyer N.T. 1858, The Emphatic Diaglott 1865, Darby 1890, Young’s 1898, the New Lamsa's translation of the Syriac Peshitta 1933, New Life Version 1969, the NKJV 1982 and the Lawrie Translation 1998.

Other English Bibles that contain Matthew 17:21 are The Word of Yah 1993, The Interlinear Greek N.T. 1997 (Larry Pierce), the Worldwide English N.T. 1998, Third Millennium bible 1998, God’s First Truth 1999, Sacred Scriptures Family of Yah 2001, The Tomson N.T. 2002, The Resurrection Life N.T. 2005, English Majority Text Version 2009, Bond Slave Version 2009, Faithful N.T. 2009, The Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010 - “Howbeit this kind goes not out but by tefillah (prayer) and tzom (fasting).”, the Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, The Work of God’s Children Illustrated Bible 2011, the Online Interlinear 2010 (André de Mol), the Expanded Bible 2011, The Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011, the Conservative Bible 2011, The Far Above All Translation 2011, The Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011, the Interlinear Hebrew-Greek Scriptures 2012 (Mebust), The Word of God Bible 2012 and the Modern English Version 2014.

Foreign Language Bibles that Contain Matthew 17:21

Among the foreign language Bibles that contain Matthew 17:21 are the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1569, Cipriano de Valera 1602, the Reina Valera 1960-1995, the French Martin 1744, the French Ostervald 1996 and the French Louis Segond 2007, Luther’s German Bible 1545 and the German Schlachter Bible 2000 - “ Aber diese Art fährt nicht aus außer durch Gebet und Fasten.”, the Italian Diodati 1649, La Nuova Diodati 1991 and the Nuova Riveduta 2006, the Dutch Staten Vertaling, the Portuguese Almeida Atualizada 2009, the Hungarian Karoli Bible, the Russian Synodal Bible, the Romanian Cornilescu Bible and the Romanian Fidela 2014, the Czeck BKR, the Tagalog Ang Salita ng Diyos 1998, and the Polish Updated Gdansk Bible 2013. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/matthew1721.htm

Locoponydirtman · Mar 20, 2020

Those italicized words are words that they are showing you that they added, "for clarity"

But thanks for King James Bible only thread #1976345296401538

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

The King James Bible, faithful as ever reads:

Mar 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

In the NWT, in Mark 9:29, it reads:

Mark 9:29 NWT - 29 He said to them: “This kind can come out only by prayer.”

The side notation on the NWT says [red, bold and underline added by myself]:

"... by prayer: Some manuscripts add “and fasting.” But the earliest and most reliable manuscripts do not include “and fasting.” These words were evidently added by copyists who advocated fasting and practiced it. They repeatedly included references to fasting where these were not found in earlier copies.—See study note on Mt 17:21. ..."

That is a total lie. Notice:

It is because of Codex Sinaiticus (aleph) (desert) and Codex Vaticanus (B) (secret vaults) (Matthew 24:26) and 0274 (pc, no cursives are cited by the N/A, or UBS), k. These (alone) leave off “and fasting”.

Yet, consider that vast evidence for “and fasting”:

“… P45

Aleph-2

C, D, E, F, G, H, K, L, M, N, S, U, V, W, X, Y

Gamma, Delta, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Psi, Omega

Cursives: MAJORITY fam 1,13

Old Latin: a, aur, b, d, f, f2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate

Syriac: Pes.hitta, (sin, old Syriac), Harclean, Palestinian

Coptic: Sahidic, Bohairic

Gothic, Armenian, Ethiopic

Also extant in 047?, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257? …” - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The AV, by Jack Moorman, page 79

It is not as the NWT notation which says "Some manuscripts", but in all practicability, all of them. It is not as the NWT notation says, "the earliest and most reliable manuscripts", but only primarily refers to Vaticanus and Sinaiticus the two most emended codices/texts on earth.

It is even found in the so called ECF:

Thomas Aquinas, citing Chrysostom, and Theophylact, and Bede, and Pseudo-Jerome, in Catena Aurea, states on Mark 9:29:

"… Chrys.: They feared that perchance they had lost the grace conferred upon them; for they had already received power over unclean spirits.

It goes on: “And He said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing but by prayer and fasting.” …" - https://ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/catena2/catena2.iii.ix.html 2

“… Theophylact: That is, the whole class of lunatics, or simply, of all persons possessed with devils. Both the man to be cured, and he who cures him, should fast; for a real prayer is offered up, when fasting is joined with prayer, when he who prays is sober and not heavy with food. …” - https://ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/catena2/catena2.iii.ix.html 2

“… Bede: Further, 179 our Lord, while teaching the Apostles how the worst devil is to be expelled, gives all of us rules for our life; that is, He would have us know that all the more grievous attacks of evil spirits or of men are to be overcome by fastings and prayers; and again, that the anger of the Lord, when it is kindled for vengeance on our crimes, can be appeased by this remedy alone. …” - https://ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/catena2/catena2.iii.ix.html 2

“… Pseudo-Jerome: Or else, the folly which is connected with the softness of the flesh, is healed by fasting; anger and laziness are healed by prayer. Each would has its own medicine, which must be applied to it; that which is used for the heel will not cure the eye; by fasting, the passions of the body, by prayer, the plagues of the soul, are healed. …” - https://ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/catena2/catena2.iii.ix.html 2

Even the Douay Rheims has (which counters their Jerome's corrupted Vulgate):

Mar 9:29 (9:28) And he said to them: This kind can go out by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

You ought take your own advice.

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

SpiritDove05 said:

Agreed, the NIV is a translation of corrupted (they like to say emended, emendations) texts, mainly Codex Aleph (Sinaiticus) and Codex B (Vaticanus) though it has a mixture of other such corrupted texts also.

Here is a good viewing list on the subject:

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

SpiritDove05 said:

Agreed, the NIV is a translation of corrupted (they like to say emended, emendations) texts, mainly Codex Aleph (Sinaiticus) and Codex B (Vaticanus) though it has a mixture of other such corrupted texts also.

Some more for your viewing pleasure:

SpiritDove05 said:

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

SpiritDove05 said:

Agreed, the NIV is a translation of corrupted (they like to say emended, emendations) texts, mainly Codex Aleph (Sinaiticus) and Codex B (Vaticanus) though it has a mixture of other such corrupted texts also.

Here is a most excellent reading list (continued):

The Professional Liars In Action – Peter S Ruckman (IFB) (PDF)

The Unknown Bible – Peter S Ruckman (IFB) (PDF)

Why I Believe The King James Bible – Peter S Ruckman (IFB) (PDF)

The King James & Modern Versions – Vance Ferrell (PDF)

Our Authorized Bible Vindicated 01 – Benjamin G Wilkinson (PDF)

Our Authorized Bible Vindicated 02 Answers To Objections – Benjamin G Wilkinson (PDF)

Truth Triumphant – Benjamin G Wilkinson (PDF)

O Biblios – The Book – Alan James O’Reilly (PDF)

O Biblios Overview – Alan James O’Reilly (PDF)

O Biblios Summary Overview – Alan James O’Reilly (PDF)

Alan James O’Reilly – K. DiVietro Response (PDF)

The Revision Revised – Dean John William Burgon (PDF)

The Last 12 Verses Of The Gospel According To Mark Vindicated – Dean John William Burgon (PDF)

Battle Of The Bibles (213) – Walter J Veith – Amazing Discoveries (PDF)

Bible Versions Does It Really Matter Which – Walter J Veith – Amazing Discoveries (PDF)

Bible Tampering – Walter J Veith – Amazing Discoveries (PDF)

Battle Of The Bibles – H H Meyers (PDF)

Modern Bible Translations Unmasked – Russell & Colin Standish (PDF)

King James Bible Vs Other Texts History Chart – H N Harkell (PDF)

God Wrote Only One Bible – Jasper James Ray (PDF)

The Faithful Witness – Pocket Book – Sharon Thomas Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Which Version Does It Really Matter – David Blunt (PDF)

King James Bible Vs NIV – A Few Comparisons And Altered Texts (PDF)

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

SpiritDove05 said:

Agreed, the NIV is a translation of corrupted (they like to say emended, emendations) texts, mainly Codex Aleph (Sinaiticus) and Codex B (Vaticanus) though it has a mixture of other such corrupted texts also.

Here is a most excellent reading list (continued):

Bible Translation Stream Chart 1 (Baptist) (PDF)

Bible Translation Stream Chart 2 (PDF)

Bible Versions Quotes Accordion Style Fold Out (PDF)

The King James Version Defended – Dr. Edward F Hills (PDF)

Verses Omitted From The NIV (PDF)

The 1611 Holy Bible versus Malcolm Bowden (PDF)

The Sola Scriptura Principle – BibleLight Net (PDF)

Which Version Is The Bible – Floyd Nolen Jones (PDF)

Salvation vs NIV Damnation Verse Comparison – AVPublications (PDF)

Salvation vs NIV Damnation – AVPublications (PDF)

AV1611 Tract (PDF)

AV1611 vs Rome’s Post-1611 Attacks (PDF)

Bible Article – The Perfect KJB (PDF)

Bible Reading Charts (PDF)

D. A. Waite Response (PDF)

English Reformation to Last Days Apostasy (PDF)

Grievous Wolf Bible Corrector Errors (PDF)

Grievous Wolf KJB Questions (PDF)

KJO James White (‘Reformed’ Baptist) Review Full Text (PDF)

James White’s (‘Reformed’ Baptist) 7 Errors (PDF)

Matthew 11 AV1611 vs 1984 NIV (PDF)

NKJV Criticisms 01 (PDF)

NKJV Criticisms 02 (PDF)

Pocket Testament WW1 (PDF)

Purification of the Lord’s Words (PDF)

Seven Aspects of ‘in the Greek’ (PDF)

Seven Aspects of ‘the Greek’ (PDF)

The Ethiopian Eunuch’s Testimony – Why It Is Scripture (PDF)

The Great Bible Robbery (PDF)

The KJB Story – 1611-2011 Abridged (PDF)

The KJB Story – 1611-2011 Abridged Appendix (PDF)

The KJB Story 1611-2011 Graphics (PDF)

The Old Latin and Waldensian Bibles (PDF)

The Royal Law (PDF)

Twist and Curl – Your Fiendly Neighbourhood Bible Correctors (PDF)

Bible Tampering Presentation – Dan Andries – Amazing Facts (Powerpoint)

The King James Copyright – A Look at the Originality of Derivative – Jason L Cohn (PDF)

Locoponydirtman · Mar 20, 2020

WithinReason said:

That's what she does. She literally studies the manuscripts.
She isn't taking second hand word for it.

Locoponydirtman · Mar 20, 2020

I love it when some Yahoo who gets his info so beyond second hand that the chain isn't even countable, tells a person who gets information first hand how it is.

I read a magazine article about viruses, so I'm gonna go tell the researchers how to fix the Corona problem.

Laughable.

John146 · Mar 20, 2020

WithinReason said:

Agreed, the NIV is a translation of corrupted (they like to say emended, emendations) texts, mainly Codex Aleph (Sinaiticus) and Codex B (Vaticanus) though it has a mixture of other such corrupted texts also.

Some more for your viewing pleasure:

Thanks for this.

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

Yes, let's do that:

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18:11&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/17/#v40017021

Let's now consider the NWT Matthew 18:11, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:

Matthew 18:11 NWT - 11 ——

NWT Notation on Matthew 18:11 - "Matthew 18:11 Some manuscripts here include the words: “For the Son of man came to save what was lost,” but these words do not appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts. A similar statement is part of the inspired text at Lu 19:10. Some are of the opinion that an early copyist borrowed the expression from Luke’s account.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/18/#v40018011

Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Luke 19:10 which does have the words, the NWT notation again false says, "... these words do not appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts ..."

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L*, Theta*; pc, fam 1,13, a, ff1, sin, pal, sa, bo-pt, mae

So when the WTS/JW notation says, "Some manuscripts here include the words ...", they are attempting to negate the vast extant literature which has the text in it:

"... D, E, F, G, H, I, K, L-c, M, N, S, U, V, W, X, Y
Theta-c, Sigma, Phi, Omega
Cursives: MAJORITY
Old Latin: a, aur, b, (c), d, f, ff2, g1, l, n, q, r1,2, Vulgate
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Armenian, Ethiopic

Also extant in 0?, 047, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0248? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 68

Additionally:

"... TAITIAN, Diatessaron (I 10:85)

TERTULLIAN, On Modesty (I 4:83), "The Lord had come of course, to save that which 'had perished'." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 40

Also:

"It is quoted by such early church writers as Hilary, Chrysostom, Chromatius and Augustine. ..." (cited below)

You can see more here - https://brandplucked.webs.com/matthew1811.htm

Micaiah-imla · Mar 20, 2020

I started out on the NIV and NKJV in my first year of Bible reading.

But I've been using the KJV from my second year right up to this day.

I am not comfortable with the changes and omissions in modern translations.

I write a lot of scripture in journals, and the one constant mistake I do is OMIT, not add.

It's more likely things got omitted during copying than addition. A true believer wouldn't dare add to scripture.

But would a non-believer leave things out (intentionally or by mistake)?

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

O, I soooooo agree with you:

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23:14&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/23/#v40023014

Let's now consider the NWT Matthew 23:14, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:

Matthew 23:14 NWT - 14 ——

NWT Notation on Matthew 23:14 - "A few manuscripts add the words: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you devour widows’ houses and for a pretense offer long prayers; on this account you will receive judgment more abundantly.” However, the earliest and most important manuscripts do not include this verse. Similar words, though, can be found at Mr 12:40 and Lu 20:47 as part of the inspired text.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/23/#v40023014

Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 12:40 and Luke 20:47 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... the earliest and most important manuscripts do not include this verse ..."

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), D, L, Z, Theta, pc, fam 1, a, aur, d, e, ff1, g1,2, q, Vulgate, sin, pal-ms, sa, bo-pt, mae, Arm-zoh.

So when the WTS/JW notation says, "A few manuscripts add the words ...", they are attempting to negate the vast extant literature which has the text in it:

"... E, F, G, H, K, M, O, S, U, V, W, Y
Gamma, Delta-gr, Theta-c, Pi, Sigma, Omega
0104
Cursives: MAJORITY, (fam 13)
Old Latin: b, c, f, ff2, h, l, r1,2, Vulgate-pt
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Curetonian, Harclean, Palestinean-mss
Coptic: Bohairic-pt
Armenian-usc (apparently), Ethiopic

... Also extant in Phi, 047, 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257? ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 71

Moreover:

"... Patristic Evidentiary Support for the Genuineness of the above Passage - THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS 38 VOLUME SET DIGITAL VERSION

170 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume 9 - The Diatessaron of Tatian. - The Diatessaron. - Section 40.

[32] And in the course of his teaching he said unto them, Guard yourselves from the [33] scribes, who desire to walk in robes, and love salutation in the marketplaces, and sitting in the highest places of the synagogues, and at feasts in the highest parts of [34] the rooms: and they broaden their amulets, and lengthen the cords of their cloaks, [35] and love that they should be called by men, My master, and DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, BECAUSE OF THEIR PROLONGING THEIR PRAYERS; THESE THEN SHALL RECEIVE GREATER JUDGEMENT.

170 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume 9 - The Diatessaron of Tatian. - The Diatessaron. - Section 40.

[42] “WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! BECAUSE YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, BECAUSE OF YOUR PROLONGING YOUR PRAYERS; FOR THIS REASON YE SHALL RECEIVE GREATER JUDGMENT.”

347-407 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 10 - St. Chrysostom: Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew - The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom. - Homily LXX - Matthew 23:14.

“WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! FOR YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES, AND FOR A PRETENSE MAKE LONG PRAYERS; THEREFORE YE SHALL RECEIVE GREATER DAMNATION.”

347-407 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 11 - Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans - The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Paul's Epistle to the Romans - Homily XXXII on Rom. 16:17, 18.

And Christ also blames them on this head: “YE DEVOUR WIDOWS’ HOUSES” (Matt 23:14), He says. And the Prophets accuse them of things of the kind. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/matthew2314scripture.htm

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

This is the best idea of your entire response:

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7:16&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/7/#v41007016

Let's now consider the NWT Mark 7:16, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:

Mark 7:16 NWT - 16 ——

NWT Notation on Mark 7:16 - "Some manuscripts here include the words “If anyone has ears to listen, let him listen,” but they do not appear in important early manuscripts. Therefore, these words are evidently not part of the original text of Mark. Similar words, though, can be found at Mr 4:9, 23 as part of the inspired Scriptures. Some scholars are of the opinion that a copyist introduced these words here as a natural comment following verse 14 by drawing from the wording at Mr 4:9, 23.—See App. A3." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/7/#v41007016

Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 4:9,23 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... Some manuscripts ... but they do not appear in important early manuscripts ..."

"Important"? Who decided that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus were "important", or even "early" or even accurate or true?

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), L, Delta*, 0274, 28, 2427

Yet, even in the Nestle/Aland footnotes, they specifically make mention of those texts that they know it to be in, though this is not all of the materials that it does exist in:

"... A, D, W

Theta

Ë1,13,

33

ï

latt sy ..." - Mark 7, New English Translation (NET) | The Bible App or NETBible: Mark 7

Peter Ruckman, cites:

"... Tatian's Diatessaron (180 AD) and the Gothic version of Ulfilas (320 AD) as the earliest authorities for this verse. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses

Thomas Aquinas, cites in Catena Aurea:

"... Pseudo-Chrys., Vict. Ant. e Cat. in Marc.: Again He subjoins, “If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” For He had not clearly shewn them, what those things are which proceed out of a man, and defile a man; and on account of this saying, the Apostles thought that the foregoing discourse of the Lord implied some other deep thing. ..." - St. Thomas Aquinas: Catena Aurea - Gospel of Mark - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

Oh, how wise the statement, but how little practiced!

The NIV and NWT follows the same pattern:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9:44&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/9/#v41009044

Let's now consider the NWT Mark 9:44, and show that it too follows Vaticanus and Sinaiticus:

Mark 9:44 NWT - 44 ——

"... Some manuscripts read here “where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out,” but these words do not appear in important early manuscripts. Similar words do appear in verse 48, where there is no uncertainty regarding the text. Evidence suggests that a scribe or scribes repeated the words from verse 48 in verses 44 and 46.—See App. A3. ..." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/9/#v41009044

Again, that which is stated is a lie, not only referring to Mark 9:48 which does have the words, the NWT notation again falsely says, "... Some manuscripts ... but these words do not appear in important early manuscripts ..."

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), C, L, W, Delta, Psi, pc, fam 1, sin, Coptic: sa, bo, fay, Arm-zoh,mss

So when the WTS/JW notation says, "... these words do not appear in important early manuscripts ...", they are attempting to negate the vast extant literature which has the text in it:

"... A, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, S, U, V, X, Y

Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega

Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13

Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, ff2, g2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate

Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean

Gothic, Armenian-usc (apparently), Ethiopic

Also extant in 047?. 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257?, 0274 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 79-80

Additionally:

"... TATIAN, Diatessaron (I 10:82)

GREGORY OF NAZIANZEN, Orations (III 7:373) ... There are no indications in the ANPF indices of a pre-400 Father skipping from verse 43 to 45 in his quotation. ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 43

More:

"... Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses

More:

"... the Latin Vulgate and the Clementine Vulgate, the Syriac Palestinian, Harclean, the Ethiopic, Slavonic and the Gothic ancient versions. It is the reading in the Modern Greek Bibles used throughout the Greek speaking world in the Orthodox churches today. ...

The verses are included in the Anglo-Saxon Gospels Corpus Christi Mss. 140 circa 1000 A.D. Though we cannot read it, it was obviously in this predecessor to the English Bibles - Mark 9:44 þar hyra wyrm ne swylt & fyr ne bið acwenced;

Mark 9:45 And gif ðin fot swicað þe ceorf hine of. betere þe is þt þu healt gá. on écé lif þonne þu hæbbe twegen fet & si aworpen on helle un-acwencedlices fyres. Mark 9:46 þar hyra wyrm ne swylt ne fyr ne bið adwæsced ...

...

354-430 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 2 - St. Augustin: City of God, Christian Doctrine - City of God - Book XXI - Of the eternal punishment of the wicked in hell, and of the various objections urged against it. - Chapter 9 - Of Hell, and the Nature of Eternal Punishments.

“It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THEIR FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” Similarly of the foot: “It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” So, too, of the eye: “It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”

HE DID NOT SHRINK FROM USING THE SAME WORDS THREE TIMES OVER IN ONE PASSAGE. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?"

" - https://brandplucked.webs.com/mark94446.htm

WithinReason · Mar 20, 2020

Angela53510 said:

Yes! YES!!! Let's learn:

The NIV and the NWT follows the same pattern:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9:46&version=NIV

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/9/#v41009046

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), C, L, W, Delta, Psi, pc, fam 1, k, sin, Coptic: sa, bo, fay, Arm

Here is the vast extant literature which has the text in it:

"... A, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, S, U, V, X, Y

Gamma, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega

Cursives: MAJORITY, fam 13

Old Latin: a, aur, b, c, d, f, ff2, i, l, q, r1, Vulgate

Syriac: Pes.hitta, Harclean

Gothic, (Ethiopic)

Also extant in 047?. 055, 0211, 0233?, 0257?, 0274 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, pages 80

Additionally:

"... 354-430 A.D. Early Church Fathers - Nicene & Post-Nicene Fathers - First Series - Volume 2 - St. Augustin: City of God, Christian Doctrine - City of God - Book XXI - Of the eternal punishment of the wicked in hell, and of the various objections urged against it. - Chapter 9 - Of Hell, and the Nature of Eternal Punishments.

“It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THEIR FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” Similarly of the foot: “It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” So, too, of the eye: “It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”

HE DID NOT SHRINK FROM USING THE SAME WORDS THREE TIMES OVER IN ONE PASSAGE. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?" ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/mark94446.htm

Additionally:

"... Ruckman (2) p 122, states that A, D, K, X, Theta, Pi and the majority of Receptus Greek manuscripts support this passage. The verses were omitted in the manuscripts of Origen and Eusebius (i.e. Aleph and B). Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - http://ecclesia.org/truth/manuscript_evidence.html

Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tamped With!!

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