Trump - puppet or savior?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Trump - puppet or savior?


  • Total voters
    39
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#41
Well when you got 1000s of people hitting the beaches and not obeying the regulations on social distances then maybe we deserve it. For goodness sake people are ignorant. That is what happens when people dont obey the government. Wouldn't be the first in US history where the government has to inforce federal laws or regulations.
Why do you think we haven’t done this in the past? What’s different about this Coronavirus than the bird flu or Ebola or zeeka?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,008
113
#43
Why do you think we haven’t done this in the past? What’s different about this Coronavirus than the bird flu or Ebola or zeeka?
Didn't Ebola have a similar scare, sars, avien, swine, mers, ebola, zika , ebola again, now corona .. What seems to be different is Trump upset the deepstate apple cart .. This CV scare was warned last year and those with TDS are demon possessed level imo .. It's what I see and my opinion ..
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#44
Well when you got 1000s of people hitting the beaches and not obeying the regulations on social distances then maybe we deserve it. For goodness sake people are ignorant. That is what happens when people dont obey the government. Wouldn't be the first in US history where the government has to inforce federal laws or regulations.
So true, people are definitely selfish and ignorant.
Japan being an excellent example of social cohesion, thinking of the best for everyone, and responding do government directive, we can anticipate this will not be the case in USA.
When I saw those pictures I was shocked.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,540
113
#46
Why do you think we haven’t done this in the past? What’s different about this Coronavirus than the bird flu or Ebola or zeeka?
I said it wouldn't be the first time government had to enforce federal laws and regulations within a state. Remember the Jim crow laws and the feds being forced to move in to protect the mixing of white and black students. The Seminole wars.

Martial law in the United States refers to several periods in United States history wherein a region or the United States as a whole were placed under the control of a military body. On a federal level, only the president has the power to impose martial law. In each state, the governor has the right to impose martial law within the borders of the state. In the United States, martial law has been used in a limited number of circumstances, such as New Orleans during the Battle of New Orleans; after major disasters, such as the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 or the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 or during riots, such as the Omaha race riot of 1919 or the 1920 Lexington riots; local leaders declared martial law to protect themselves from mob violence, such as Nauvoo, Illinois, during the Illinois Mormon War, or Utah during the Utah War; or in response to chaos associated with protests and rioting, such as the 1934 West Coast waterfront strike, in Hawaii after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and during the Civil Rights Movement in response to the Cambridge riot of 1963.

One of the very first incidents was under George Washington. To support federal power to enforce the law, Congress passed the Militia Law of 1792. This law allowed Congress to raise a militia to “execute the laws of the union, (and) suppress insurrections.”

The incident was known as Shay’s Whiskey Rebellion.

By July of 1794, the tension had reached a breaking point. Tax collectors were harassed, tarred and feathered; one’s home was burned. In Western Pennsylvania, the rebellion was intense. Reports told that six thousand people were camped outside Pittsburgh threatening to march on the town.

Washington believed he had to act. He and his cabinet members met with Pennsylvania officials. They decided to present evidence of the violence to Associate Justice of the Supreme Court James Wilson. After reviewing the evidence, Wilson certified that the situation could not be controlled by civil authorities alone. A military response could proceed.

On August 7, Washington issued a proclamation commanding all “insurgents” to “disperse and retire peaceably to their respective abodes.” He cited his authority under the 1792 Militia Act. But the rebellion continued. September 25, 1794, he issued another Proclamation which read in part,

… I, George Washington, President of the United States, in obedience to that high and irresistible duty consigned to me by the Constitution ‘to take care that the laws be faithfully executed,’ … do hereby declare and make known that… a militia…force which…is adequate to the exigency is already is motion…”

Washington recruited militia members from Pennsylvania as well as nearby Maryland and New Jersey.

(This would be like our national guard of today until other military personnel could reinforce them)

In total, there were almost 13,000 men—about as many as had served in the entire Continental Army that defeated the British. Washington personally led the troops into Bedford—the first and only time a sitting US President has led troops into the field.

By the end of November, more than 150 people had been arrested; most were later freed due to lack of evidence. Two were convicted of treason, but Washington later pardoned them. Washington’s strong response to the Whiskey Rebellion became, as future-President James Madison put it, “a lesson to every part of the Union against disobedience to the laws.”

Of course this has two sides. If you was a true believer in the rebellion then the government puts the foot down on you. You would see them as tyrants. It comes down to is the government protecting the people or not. If the government is in fact looking for any excuse to lock down its citizens to bring forth something against the constitution then we should be alarmed but until that day we must remember this is temporary and it will pass. The government wants it to go back to normal just as much as we do because a global recession hurts everyone and a global pandemic hurts everyone.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,540
113
#47
Me neither. It’s amazing how most people think the government has our best interest in mind.
What else you going to do? This is bigger than local and state governments. This is a national emergency within a global Pandemic. Regardless if you do not see it as severe as the flu we are at a situation where the fear and anxiety has caused the most damage.

Government is a broad term. In a local, state, and federal level we have powers within each level to defend against other levels of encroachment. Plus the 3 branches of federal government has the Legislative, Executive, and Judiciary. Each of the 3 has powers to defend against the other 2. Separation of power goes in many different directions and would really take every part within Government to be corrupt. So according to which individuals are in charge is where the trust comes in. You may not trust the Executive but maybe the people will vote differently next election or begin grassroot campaigns, or have good people to act in the local, state, Legislative, and judiciary who will push against the executive's policies, orders, or demands. The people as long as we have the freedom to vote has a lot of weight on the local, state, Legislative, and executive government.

There are many conservative Christians or American loving Patriots at every level of power and every branch. This is why it is so important to vote in every small and large elections so that we put good people in all levels of government.

In conclusion we have to trust God and trust our system of government not out of blind faith but because it has provided such liberty and protection for over 250 years and as the longest standing Constitution we should take heart in knowing this system even with its flaws has held up under many different crises of the past. Until it has become so tyrannical as the list within the Declaration of Independence and we are facing basic slavery then I could agree not to trust the government. But for now we are submit to the authorities as scripture says. They are not currently abolishing the bill of rights so it is wise and good as a law abiding citizens to show proper respect to authorities.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#48
What else you going to do? This is bigger than local and state governments. This is a national emergency within a global Pandemic. Regardless if you do not see it as severe as the flu we are at a situation where the fear and anxiety has caused the most damage.

Government is a broad term. In a local, state, and federal level we have powers within each level to defend against other levels of encroachment. Plus the 3 branches of federal government has the Legislative, Executive, and Judiciary. Each of the 3 has powers to defend against the other 2. Separation of power goes in many different directions and would really take every part within Government to be corrupt. So according to which individuals are in charge is where the trust comes in. You may not trust the Executive but maybe the people will vote differently next election or begin grassroot campaigns, or have good people to act in the local, state, Legislative, and judiciary who will push against the executive's policies, orders, or demands. The people as long as we have the freedom to vote has a lot of weight on the local, state, Legislative, and executive government.

There are many conservative Christians or American loving Patriots at every level of power and every branch. This is why it is so important to vote in every small and large elections so that we put good people in all levels of government.

In conclusion we have to trust God and trust our system of government not out of blind faith but because it has provided such liberty and protection for over 250 years and as the longest standing Constitution we should take heart in knowing this system even with its flaws has held up under many different crises of the past. Until it has become so tyrannical as the list within the Declaration of Independence and we are facing basic slavery then I could agree not to trust the government. But for now we are submit to the authorities as scripture says. They are not currently abolishing the bill of rights so it is wise and good as a law abiding citizens to show proper respect to authorities.
Where do you see fear and anxiety having caused damage? I have not seen this at all where I live in Canada.
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#49
Where do you see fear and anxiety having caused damage? I have not seen this at all where I live in Canada.
I did have a guy drive right up to my tailgate and blow the horn while doing 54 in a 50 zone, not sure if it was Covid 19 related - maybe in a rush to self isolate after work.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#50
Trump 2020! Biden would destabilize us completely after trying to heal from this global recession. We will be over this virus soon. The market loves a capitalist.
Just on fyi.... while he has supported the markets ... do not be fooled most companies are way over leveraged... now some economists think that companies and governments
being in huge debt is not a problem ...I am not persuaded however.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#51
I did have a guy drive right up to my tailgate and blow the horn while doing 54 in a 50 zone, not sure if it was Covid 19 related - maybe in a rush to self isolate after work.
Okay so one case in all of Canada, I guess we are not perfect. :)
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#52
Two cases locally so far, one in a school 100 metres away. (before the school closures)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,540
113
#53
Where do you see fear and anxiety having caused damage? I have not seen this at all where I live in Canada.
Our grocery stores are having a hard time keeping things stocked. People are stealing medical supplies. People are hoarding medical supplies. People are price gouging. The facts show that the flu is more severe but yet we are almost at a total lockdown. Our media has a bad reputation of spreading either false or inaccurate information. But also the negative in every story. So for example you may hear more about the deaths but not the recovery. You may hear over and over of the people who are affected sharing their fears instead of those who have recovered or encouragers like the pastors or faith leaders. Economists keep saying the economy is strong but the market is tanking which is a clear indicator that fear and anxiety are driving the markets within a temporary virus and oil war between Russia and Saudi Arabia.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#54
Our grocery stores are having a hard time keeping things stocked. People are stealing medical supplies. People are hoarding medical supplies. People are price gouging. The facts show that the flu is more severe but yet we are almost at a total lockdown. Our media has a bad reputation of spreading either false or inaccurate information. But also the negative in every story. So for example you may hear more about the deaths but not the recovery. You may hear over and over of the people who are affected sharing their fears instead of those who have recovered or encouragers like the pastors or faith leaders. Economists keep saying the economy is strong but the market is tanking which is a clear indicator that fear and anxiety are driving the markets within a temporary virus and oil war between Russia and Saudi Arabia.
The economy is not strong, economists lie and investors know that, that does not mean they will try an make a buck while there is an illusion of a strong economy or save their skins when it all goes bad by selling off.

That is too bad .. people here are acting very responsible for the most part although there definitely is increased demand for certain items.... there will be no food shortage in this but then the media does fuel the frenzy.

Someone just said to me that watching this virus unfold is kinda like watching 9/11 in slow motion... we are not sure of the real impact until it all comes to fruition.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,540
113
#56
Just on fyi.... while he has supported the markets ... do not be fooled most companies are way over leveraged... now some economists think that companies and governments
being in huge debt is not a problem ...I am not persuaded however.
It is absolutely a huge problem. Essentially a country who stays in increasing debt has future that looks like Venezuela. When a country goes bankrupt then essential operations are shutdown and the money loses its value. Government bailouts for failing companies have always been stupid due to there are probably good reasons why the company is failing to begin with. Usually in a free market there are smaller companies eager to take their place.

This is unfortunate because at the level of debt the US has achieved will realistically take extreme government spending cuts in which no candidate ever talks about. In reality it wouldn't be hard to do for the average thinking person. Buying new furniture for government office shouldn't be needed every year or a office chair shouldn't cost $400. Government research projects are often extremely wasteful. And Government welfare programs always lead to failure in the long run. Take our countries social security for example. From the idea it is a great idea to support the elderly in retirement but government is always very poor at management and corruption tends to hurt any welfare program. The government has borrowed money out of social security, has paid it to people who haven't paid into it, and keeps increasing the age limit needed to cash in on it.

It will return to how people once had to depend on retirement was within people actually saving for it in savings accounts or things like 401Ks.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,540
113
#57
The economy is not strong, economists lie and investors know that, that does not mean they will try an make a buck while there is an illusion of a strong economy or save their skins when it all goes bad by selling off.

That is too bad .. people here are acting very responsible for the most part although there definitely is increased demand for certain items.... there will be no food shortage in this but then the media does fuel the frenzy.

Someone just said to me that watching this virus unfold is kinda like watching 9/11 in slow motion... we are not sure of the real impact until it all comes to fruition.
Our economy was running quite strong before the virus. You can follow a daily update from Daniel J. Celia CEO/President, Financial Issues Stewardship Ministries. Dan is a 35 years as an entrepreneur and businessman, starting eight corporations and co-founder of two others. In 1999 Dan sold his Small Trust Company (managing over 900 million dollars) to go into Ministry. Dan has developed and uses a biblically-responsible system of financial management with great success.

If you go to https://financialissues.org/ it will help anyone follow along with the markets or economy. The economy has been doing wonderful the last few years atleast in America. Unemployment at records low even for the minority groups.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#58
Our economy was running quite strong before the virus. You can follow a daily update from Daniel J. Celia CEO/President, Financial Issues Stewardship Ministries. Dan is a 35 years as an entrepreneur and businessman, starting eight corporations and co-founder of two others. In 1999 Dan sold his Small Trust Company (managing over 900 million dollars) to go into Ministry. Dan has developed and uses a biblically-responsible system of financial management with great success.

If you go to https://financialissues.org/ it will help anyone follow along with the markets or economy. The economy has been doing wonderful the last few years atleast in America. Unemployment at records low even for the minority groups.
Much more complicated than low unemployment, my understanding of economics and finance quite strong .. many companies over leveraged, the wonderfulness is a facade when one looks at the hard data.
 
Mar 20, 2020
77
8
8
#59
I've heard many people including my parents say "God sent Trump to save America".

I've always said he's a puppet doing the bidding of the elite.... his handling of the Coronavirus proves that in my opinion.

What do you think, is Trump a puppet or a savior?
I am a stickler about being accurate with words.

What has trump saved anyone of? Maybe increased some jobs? or something? shut out some drug? shoot idk... Hasnt done a thing for me...

A puppet? No... Trump may be influenced by people and powers around him, like anyone else would be.. But I really like the way trump sticks to his way... Calls people out... Though we really should be supporting the west above the east (my personal opinion).. And he has been trouble for the west, and influenced by the east...

Though in reality... What the heck do i care? How does any of this have anything to do with my life?

If i met Trump id say to him "glad to finally see that you are a real person and not some hack projected from my TV screen." (first of all)... and "Why should i care at all about you? what you going to do for me?"

Dude, if the world is going to go around telling my how messed up it is, and saying i need to care about how it's totally screwed up, and it even wants to take my attention... The least i can do, is not give it that... You can mess up your world all you want, you can not take my attention...

Why should I care?