Has the second coming occurred already?

[Dino246]

I think I have some clues.

No, you don't. Clearly.

 

[Absolutely]

I find it interesting that this topic devolved so quickly into ad hominem comments, derision, and dismissal.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Sacred cows don't die easily. I wonder whether anyone who holds strongly a particular position has seriously considered other positions (and not just to debunk them).

Exactly.
Test fit scenarios.
All false notions when carried to length and held to the bible definitely fizz at some point.
We know we are hitting target when,in arbitrary study our prism is proven correct.

Of course the Spirit bears witness.....but that is becoming less useful in discussion(especially here.)
Sad

 

[Jimbone]

Couldn't find any reports of women eating their own babies during WW2 but cannibalism did exist in the concentration camps and the Warsaw ghetto.
A British Holocaust survivor described how cannibalism was “rampant” among Jewish inmates at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, in a compensation claim released by the National Archives this week.
Harold Le Druillenec, the only British survivor found at the camp at the end of the war, said: “Jungle law reigned among the prisoners; at night you killed or were killed; by day cannibalism was rampant.”
British academics corroborated the gruesome account. Holocaust expert Prof. Dan Stone at Royal Holloway, University of London, said: “Sources indicate that cannibalism did indeed take place during the last phase of Belsen’s existence… It is referred to in a number of sources from the time and later.”

It wasn't the number of dead even though I pointed that out. It was the amount of suffering at the hands of the Nazis that was directed at the Jewish people of Europe. They were just ripped out of their lives and sent to concentration camps where they were forced into slave labor, the starving, murdering, the separation of families, the torturing and so much more misery then the world had ever seen inflicted on a people in so many countries.
As for the rest of what I spoke about, I got it all from books and research and it is not my opinion. I put a lot of research into the posts I put on here. When I am posting I have my research tools sitting right beside me so I can quickly look stuff up.
Thanks for the compliment.

Now thinking about it I probably shouldn't have even started comparing when my main point was we can't really know what was worse, but if I hold to what I say I believe, then I have to believe 70 AD was worse, but again thinking a bit more about it trying to compare and judge such insane atrocities to judge what's the "worse" is sick and I actually regret even starting down that line of thinking, it was ALL evil, but I have to admit that if I am going to be consistent I have to go with Gods word and believe it was worse then, even when communism in Russia killed people in numbers that dwarf even the Holocaust, by a LOT, and that's usually not mentioned either. I agree it's very hard to make the case that these things weren't worse, or how about the plague, so I understand why people have a problem placing the Great Tribulation in the past.
I would also like to make one last point concerning the views that I hold now about eschatology, and the first thing is that since being born again my understanding of God and His word have changed drastically since day one as I grow closer to Him, so I trust God to guide me to all truth and if I trust Him to guide me then I have to trust Him to guide all His children to truth. I only trying to proclaim the truth as faithfully as possible to His glory.

 

[massorite]

Now thinking about it I probably shouldn't have even started comparing when my main point was we can't really know what was worse, but if I hold to what I say I believe, then I have to believe 70 AD was worse, but again thinking a bit more about it trying to compare and judge such insane atrocities to judge what's the "worse" is sick and I actually regret even starting down that line of thinking, it was ALL evil, but I have to admit that if I am going to be consistent I have to go with Gods word and believe it was worse then, even when communism in Russia killed people in numbers that dwarf even the Holocaust, by a LOT, and that's usually not mentioned either. I agree it's very hard to make the case that these things weren't worse, or how about the plague, so I understand why people have a problem placing the Great Tribulation in the past.
I would also like to make one last point concerning the views that I hold now about eschatology, and the first thing is that since being born again my understanding of God and His word have changed drastically since day one as I grow closer to Him, so I trust God to guide me to all truth and if I trust Him to guide me then I have to trust Him to guide all His children to truth. I only trying to proclaim the truth as faithfully as possible to His glory.

That is every believers job.

 

[JohnR7]

Sometimes people are so beaten down they just want to go home(Be with the Lord)

We can spend time with the Lord in prayer and meditation. He can give us comfort and peace. Sometimes I can listen to a teaching on YouTube and be comforted. Or read a prophecy and be encouraged.

 

[Aerials1978]

We can spend time with the Lord in prayer and meditation. He can give us comfort and peace. Sometimes I can listen to a teaching on YouTube and be comforted. Or read a prophecy and be encouraged.

Yes. Lion of Judah has given me so much encouragement, courage, and hope.

 

[crossnote]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

Umm, not yet...

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Umm, not yet...

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This about put the nails on the coffin of the belief Jesus already came.

 

[Jimbone]

This about put the nails on the coffin of the belief Jesus already came.

No it doesn't, #1 you weren't there so can not know if every eye saw Him then, #2 every eye will see Him once we die, and every tounge will confess He is Lord, so I don't think your case is as "cut and dry" as your presenting it here.

Side note: if He is bringing His kingdom in the way you're suggesting here would that not be a kingdom we could point to and say "there it is"? Is this not waiting for an earthly kingdom to be established the same exact way the Jews that reject Him were, and they were mistaken? Just a thought.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No it doesn't, #1 you weren't there so can not know if every eye saw Him then, #2 every eye will see Him once we die, and every tounge will confess He is Lord, so I don't think your case is as "cut and dry" as your presenting it here.

Side note: if He is bringing His kingdom in the way you're suggesting here would that not be a kingdom we could point to and say "there it is"? Is this not waiting for an earthly kingdom to be established the same exact way the Jews that reject Him were, and they were mistaken? Just a thought.

i Don’t have to be there, I just have to read history

every eye did not see him coming in the clouds and every nation did not cower in fear

the jews rejected him because they thought they were already saved, that was the root cause of their error. They also missed the mystery, that sin had to be taken care of first before any kingdom could be had.

the OT says he will have a kingdom, I would trust it to be true, and not make it something else

 

[crossnote]

This about put the nails on the coffin of the belief Jesus already came.

I suppose the preterists would come up with, "Well they haven't seen Him yet, but they will"...ignoring the natural reading of the text as well as it's context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I suppose the preterists would come up with, "Well they haven't seen Him yet, but they will"...ignoring the natural reading of the text as well as it's context.

Symbolic interpretation of Gods plain words when God said this or that will happen is giving God a bad name,, It says God does not know what he is talking about, or he can not really tell the future word for word what will happen.

There is only one reason to do it. Because to take God literally. You have to admit everything you were taught and believe has been wrong.

it takes a great amount of humility to be able to do this. I think most people can not find it in them to do this.

 

[Jimbone]

i Don’t have to be there, I just have to read history

every eye did not see him coming in the clouds and every nation did not cower in fear

the jews rejected him because they thought they were already saved, that was the root cause of their error. They also missed the mystery, that sin had to be taken care of first before any kingdom could be had.

the OT says he will have a kingdom, I would trust it to be true, and not make it something else

So are you telling me that any other way the bible is interpreted outside of your view is wrong? So you KNOW all this is 100% in agreement with you view alone, yet I bet you can't explain to me how we can possibly have "Gods temple" back on earth when He has already spoken to us in these last days through Jesus, cannon is closed, we have the final word and Jesus is seated at the right hand with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, reigning until all enemies are being made a footstool for His feet, and to use His words "It is finished".

Everything Gods temple pointed to is fulfilled, how does it make any sense to command it back? Not only that can you tell me when He commanded it built? Oh not yet? So is scripture still open? Unless you can show me where God commanded men to build Him a temple to dwell among His people, then for any "3rd temple" to exist then it would take Jesus commanding it built, so we can go backward. Now if a bunch of Jewish guys decide to build a temple this does not make it "Gods temple", and make no mistake it's clearly God's temple that the AOD takes place in. You can't desolate a non temple. So before you come at me sideways acting as if YOU hold all the answers please explain this small little hole in this whole "future judgement" idea. It just doesn't work AT ALL without His temple, and sorry but just like Jesus said, that age ended before that generation pasted away, just like it says. See this view make Jesus King RIGHT NOW!!!! Praise His name, it also doesn't make Him a liar when He says this many times in many ways. Your view does make Jesus a liar no matter how you want to tap dance around these verses. Not only that but makes Him King now, but not just yet. We are still waiting for Him to bring His earthly kingdom on the clouds so we can point to and say "there it is, there's His kingdom!"

 

[Jimbone]

Symbolic interpretation of Gods plain words when God said this or that will happen is giving God a bad name,, It says God does not know what he is talking about, or he can not really tell the future word for word what will happen.

There is only one reason to do it. Because to take God literally. You have to admit everything you were taught and believe has been wrong.

it takes a great amount of humility to be able to do this. I think most people can not find it in them to do this.

By the way, where does it say that all of them will see it all at the same time? You read too much into the text man.

 

[Jimbone]

1111111111111111111111111

 

[Jimbone]

Symbolic interpretation of Gods plain words when God said this or that will happen is giving God a bad name,, It says God does not know what he is talking about, or he can not really tell the future word for word what will happen.

There is only one reason to do it. Because to take God literally. You have to admit everything you were taught and believe has been wrong.

it takes a great amount of humility to be able to do this. I think most people can not find it in them to do this.

By the way, where does it say that all of them will see it all at the same time? You read too much into the text man.

My response here was to the wrong comment so it doesn't make sense like it is, it was supposed to be to the same comment that was above it, this one:

i Don’t have to be there, I just have to read history

every eye did not see him coming in the clouds and every nation did not cower in fear

the jews rejected him because they thought they were already saved, that was the root cause of their error. They also missed the mystery, that sin had to be taken care of first before any kingdom could be had.

the OT says he will have a kingdom, I would trust it to be true, and not make it something else

So I hope that clears up my jumbled mess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So are you telling me that any other way the bible is interpreted outside of your view is wrong? So you KNOW all this is 100% in agreement with you view alone, yet I bet you can't explain to me how we can possibly have "Gods temple" back on earth when He has already spoken to us in these last days through Jesus, cannon is closed, we have the final word and Jesus is seated at the right hand with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, reigning until all enemies are being made a footstool for His feet, and to use His words "It is finished".

Everything Gods temple pointed to is fulfilled, how does it make any sense to command it back? Not only that can you tell me when He commanded it built? Oh not yet? So is scripture still open? Unless you can show me where God commanded men to build Him a temple to dwell among His people, then for any "3rd temple" to exist then it would take Jesus commanding it built, so we can go backward. Now if a bunch of Jewish guys decide to build a temple this does not make it "Gods temple", and make no mistake it's clearly God's temple that the AOD takes place in. You can't desolate a non temple. So before you come at me sideways acting as if YOU hold all the answers please explain this small little hole in this whole "future judgement" idea. It just doesn't work AT ALL without His temple, and sorry but just like Jesus said, that age ended before that generation pasted away, just like it says. See this view make Jesus King RIGHT NOW!!!! Praise His name, it also doesn't make Him a liar when He says this many times in many ways. Your view does make Jesus a liar no matter how you want to tap dance around these verses. Not only that but makes Him King now, but not just yet. We are still waiting for Him to bring His earthly kingdom on the clouds so we can point to and say "there it is, there's His kingdom!"

No

i am telling you any other interpretation which does not align with what the scripture says is wrong

the Bible says when Jesus comes back. certain things will happen, and they did, We see a lot of things that literally came true exactly as the Bible said they would

The time
The signs
The miracles
Where he would come
What he would do
How h would be rejected
How the word would go to the peopel who are not his (gentiles)
How he would die *cursed is the one who hangs on a tree)
What his death would be like. (Psalms 52 as a prime example)

all these things literally came true

Using this as a means of interpreting the word wiht the word.

if these things LITERALLY COME TRUE, why would everything else SPIRITUALLY COME TRUE?

they should not. We use the already fulfilled as precedence as to how to interpret future prophecy

The fact is, if those things have not happened, (as the things said about the 1st advent literally came true) Jesus has not returned

the Bible also says God gives us signs through prophesy so that we can KNOW he is God, and he declairs the future he declares he does so. So when they do come true, the people living at the time can KNOW they came from him, and the fulfillment s are used as a TESTIMONY he is the one true God.

if these things do not happen, then The Whole purpose God gave for prophecy is destroyed and it is meaningless

In fact. Anyone can make prophecy say whatever they want it to. by just symbolizing what the literal word says and making the word agree with them. (IE, God is no more a prophet than say Nostradamus)

Everything God said concerning salvation has been fulfilled. I agree

Everything God said about the coming of Christ as king and the earth as it relates to that coming and essential reign has not

you trying to make it seem it has does not make it so

If you want to discuss, Discuss. COme at me again with the nonsense like you did in yoru first sentence ad I will discontinue our conversation. I refuse ot converse wth people who make silly remarks trying to belittle a person, instead of just sticking to the word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By the way, where does it say that all of them will see it all at the same time? You read too much into the text man.

Where does it say they will see him at different times?

You read somethign that is not there. And expect me to agree with you when it does not say that

It says when he comes (the moment) the whole world will see him

Either you believe him or you do not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My response here was to the wrong comment so it doesn't make sense like it is, it was supposed to be to the same comment that was above it, this one:

So I hope that clears up my jumbled mess.

Not really can you explain more?

 

[crossnote]

1111111111111111111111111

Converting from binary to decimal =33554431 __