Demons in our Church.

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#42
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#42
gb9 said:
ignorance huh?

I have read the Bible all the way through over 20 times, I understand what it says and what it does not say.

I understand the old and new covenants.

what I do not understand is why do you and bilk refuse to read and comment on what God told Moses in Lev. 26 about whom were under what Covenant.
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Are you saying that God is not a universal God, but only a God of one nation? God freed slaves from Egypt to show us how he frees us from the slavery of sin, and those people were a mixed group of Egyptians and Israelites, God became their God. Are you not of God so you are not of the mixed crowd, but separate? Do you feel you are not included in those freed from sin? Perhaps you reject Him? Christ is also God, perhaps you do not accept Christ? If God as spoken of in the OT is not your God giving the old covenant to those who are his (but not you?) then neither is Christ who gave the new covenant for they are the same God. Christ told us He did not change what God told us.
 
Whispered

Whispered

Well-known member
#43
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#43
gb9 said:
ignorance huh?

I have read the Bible all the way through over 20 times, I understand what it says and what it does not say.

I understand the old and new covenants.

what I do not understand is why do you and bilk refuse to read and comment on what God told Moses in Lev. 26 about whom were under what Covenant.
Click to expand...
Abraham was the first Hebrew. He had six sons with his wife, Keturah. Save for her son Jacob, Abraham's other sons descendants were all considered Gentiles. Which means they were the descendants of Abraham, due to his seed giving life to the five sons from whom the Gentiles sprang.

While the descendants of Jacob, his twelve sons, gave rise in this order to those that became first known as Hebrews, then Israelite's, and lastly, Jews.

The Book of Leviticus chapter 26:40 “But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery that they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me, 41 so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies—if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity, 42 then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remember my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 But the land shall be abandoned by them and enjoy its Sabbaths while it lies desolate without them, and they shall make amends for their iniquity, because they spurned my rules and their soul abhorred my statutes. 44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not spurn them, neither will I abhor them so as to destroy them utterly and break my covenant with them, for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will for their sake remember the covenant with their forefathers, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.”

46 These are the statutes and rules and laws that the Lord made between himself and the people of Israel through Moses on Mount Sinai.
 
Whispered

Whispered

Well-known member
#44
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#44
NBC_Intern_2020 said:
First post outside of my own thread, so hey.
I could write a long paragraph about how the whole "following Christ means you can't follow Moses" is both wrong and right at the same time, but I'll just say something simple.
Ok guys, look. No, you can't just do both at the same time. You just cant, it nearly conflicts with itself and any non Christian theists will be quick to point that out. But in fact, you don't need to abandon anyone. In the New Testament, throughout many verses is it talked about how the old is made new. A common misconception is that this is only for humans. It applies for nearly everything, actually. The spiritual laws of Moses were made into newer, better laws that we are to follow. Basically, while we are still meant to obey the laws of Moses, we need to do so in the way of Christ.
DM me if you disagree and we can have a friendly debate about it in which I provide massive biblical evidence as I drink hot chocolate and do homework. I love debates (not arguments, and any kind of debate) by the way and I could go on forever. So, for anything, even politics, come and talk to me.
Also, if you're having dreams and you don't know what they mean, describe them to me in a DM and I can interpret them for you, or rather just give you the interpretation from God, just as he did for Joseph.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as the law of Moses. This even Moses knew. Moses was given the laws of God by God. Ergo, they are and ever have been, the laws of the God of Moses.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#45
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#45
Blik said:
Some preach the law has been cancelled, so with no law it is OK to sin.
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Many are called few are chosen. If people want to be used by God then they have to live a life of holiness and sanctification. We have to be very careful with our words because God watches over what we say to hold us accountable for every word we speak.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#46
#46
Blik said:
Are you saying that God is not a universal God, but only a God of one nation? God freed slaves from Egypt to show us how he frees us from the slavery of sin, and those people were a mixed group of Egyptians and Israelites, God became their God. Are you not of God so you are not of the mixed crowd, but separate? Do you feel you are not included in those freed from sin? Perhaps you reject Him? Christ is also God, perhaps you do not accept Christ? If God as spoken of in the OT is not your God giving the old covenant to those who are his (but not you?) then neither is Christ who gave the new covenant for they are the same God. Christ told us He did not change what God told us.
Click to expand...
you can really turn on the charm

have you taken acting lessons?

this post is one of your best...one where you reveal the true nature of what you believe
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#47
#47
Locoponydirtman said:
Damon's deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and the effectual powerful working of his sacrifice on the cross and his resurrection.
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I disagree

demons are only too well aware of the fact Jesus is God and know full well what His blood has done

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12

it would seem the devil knows full well who Christ is as Jesus saw him fall from heaven like lightning
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#48
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#48
Nehemiah6 said:
To follow Christ is to abandon Moses. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the word of God. He adds to the word of God that we receive from Moses but He takes nothing away from what we receive from Moses. "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18) There are 600,000 letters or strokes of the pen in what we receive from Moses. This shows us how exact and precise the word of God is. As soon as the pen touches the paper you have a dot and the entire universe started off the size of that dot. People want to cut this and cut that, they want to disregard this and disregard that. This is just not the way God works in our life. The Grace of God is given to set us free. We do not have to be in bondage to sin.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#50
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#50
Whispered said:
Abraham was the first Hebrew.
Click to expand...
Hebrew means to cross over the river. Abraham lived in the Tigris Euphrates river valley in what we now call Ancient Mesopotamia. After his father died he got rid of the idols and the false God and he crossed over the river. He was given the entire Arab continental place for his descendants (1500 x 1500 x 1500 miles) This is the size of the New Jerusalem that will come down from Heaven. (Rev 21:16&21)

After leaving Egypt they lived in the wilderness for 40 years. Then they crossed over the Jordan river into the Promised Land.
 

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#51
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#51
NBC_Intern_2020 said:
First post outside of my own thread, so hey.
I could write a long paragraph about how the whole "following Christ means you can't follow Moses" is both wrong and right at the same time, but I'll just say something simple.
Ok guys, look. No, you can't just do both at the same time. You just cant, it nearly conflicts with itself and any non Christian theists will be quick to point that out. But in fact, you don't need to abandon anyone. In the New Testament, throughout many verses is it talked about how the old is made new. A common misconception is that this is only for humans. It applies for nearly everything, actually. The spiritual laws of Moses were made into newer, better laws that we are to follow. Basically, while we are still meant to obey the laws of Moses, we need to do so in the way of Christ.
DM me if you disagree and we can have a friendly debate about it in which I provide massive biblical evidence as I drink hot chocolate and do homework. I love debates (not arguments, and any kind of debate) by the way and I could go on forever. So, for anything, even politics, come and talk to me.
Also, if you're having dreams and you don't know what they mean, describe them to me in a DM and I can interpret them for you, or rather just give you the interpretation from God, just as he did for Joseph.
Click to expand...
The laws of Moses are first the universal laws of the Lord written with God's own hand and to follow them is to follow love as is the core of all universal law. It is impossible to follow the law of love, the spiritual law, and break these laws for they express love. Second scripture also calls the rituals like circucision, the cutting of flesh the law of Moses. If you say that you are obeying the law of love by cutting flesh, you are judaizing and not following the spiritual law at all. If you say that you cannot follow Moses at all then you are saying you are a lawless rebel. Teaching to not follow the spiritual law that Moses gave us from God puts you in hell, for it is sin that Christ must cleanse you of. If you hold it in yourself and not let Christ in you give up your eternal life.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#52
#52
7seasrekeyed said:
I disagree

demons are only too well aware of the fact Jesus is God and know full well what His blood has done

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12

it would seem the devil knows full well who Christ is as Jesus saw him fall from heaven like lightning
Click to expand...
Agreed, but what will they teach humans to do?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#53
Jan 18, 2011
12,397
6,737
113
#53
Whispered said:
Abraham was the first Hebrew. He had six sons with his wife, Keturah. Save for her son Jacob, Abraham's other sons descendants were all considered Gentiles. Which means they were the descendants of Abraham, due to his seed giving life to the five sons from whom the Gentiles sprang.

While the descendants of Jacob, his twelve sons, gave rise in this order to those that became first known as Hebrews, then Israelite's, and lastly, Jews.

The Book of Leviticus chapter 26:40 “But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery that they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me, 41 so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies—if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity, 42 then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remember my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 But the land shall be abandoned by them and enjoy its Sabbaths while it lies desolate without them, and they shall make amends for their iniquity, because they spurned my rules and their soul abhorred my statutes. 44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not spurn them, neither will I abhor them so as to destroy them utterly and break my covenant with them, for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will for their sake remember the covenant with their forefathers, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.”

46 These are the statutes and rules and laws that the Lord made between himself and the people of Israel through Moses on Mount Sinai.
Click to expand...
i this is included " the Covenant made with the forefathers of those I brought out of Egypt"

that would be the same Covenant that includes the Law and the Sabbath.

so, if you cannot trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that covenant was not made with and is not binding on you.
 
NBC_Intern_2020

NBC_Intern_2020

New member
#54
Mar 10, 2020
4
4
3
#54
Whispered said:
There is no such thing as the law of Moses. This even Moses knew. Moses was given the laws of God by God. Ergo, they are and ever have been, the laws of the God of Moses.
Click to expand...
I know, I was just referring to them by calling it that since everyone in earlier posts seems to want to call it that. I'm simply putting it in their terms for their easiest understanding.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#55
#55
Whispered said:
Abraham was the first Hebrew. He had six sons with his wife, Keturah. Save for her son Jacob, Abraham's other sons descendants were all considered Gentiles. Which means they were the descendants of Abraham, due to his seed giving life to the five sons from whom the Gentiles sprang.

While the descendants of Jacob, his twelve sons, gave rise in this order to those that became first known as Hebrews, then Israelite's, and lastly, Jews.

The Book of Leviticus chapter 26:40 “But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery that they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me, 41 so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies—if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity, 42 then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remember my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 But the land shall be abandoned by them and enjoy its Sabbaths while it lies desolate without them, and they shall make amends for their iniquity, because they spurned my rules and their soul abhorred my statutes. 44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not spurn them, neither will I abhor them so as to destroy them utterly and break my covenant with them, for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will for their sake remember the covenant with their forefathers, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.”

46 These are the statutes and rules and laws that the Lord made between himself and the people of Israel through Moses on Mount Sinai.
Click to expand...
You know, as many times as I have read Genesis, I have never really noticed that Abraham remarried after Sara died. I don't know why it never stood out to me before I read this post. It states he gave those sons gifts and sent them out away from Isaac.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#56
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#56
Whispered said:
Abraham was the first Hebrew. He had six sons with his wife, Keturah. Save for her son Jacob, Abraham's other sons descendants were all considered Gentiles.
Click to expand...
Which version of Genesis are you reading? In the Bible, Jacob was the son of Isaac who was the son of Abraham by Sarah, not Keturah.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#57
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#57
Blik said:
The laws of Moses are first the universal laws of the Lord written with God's own hand and to follow them is to follow love as is the core of all universal law. It is impossible to follow the law of love, the spiritual law, and break these laws for they express love. Second scripture also calls the rituals like circucision, the cutting of flesh the law of Moses. If you say that you are obeying the law of love by cutting flesh, you are judaizing and not following the spiritual law at all. If you say that you cannot follow Moses at all then you are saying you are a lawless rebel. Teaching to not follow the spiritual law that Moses gave us from God puts you in hell, for it is sin that Christ must cleanse you of. If you hold it in yourself and not let Christ in you give up your eternal life.
Click to expand...
The Law as given to Moses was for Israel, not everybody. God never gave the Law to the Chinese, or the Celts, or the Incas. His purpose was that Israel would bear the Saviour, Jesus.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#58
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#58
Whispered said:
There is no such thing as the law of Moses. This even Moses knew. Moses was given the laws of God by God. Ergo, they are and ever have been, the laws of the God of Moses.
Click to expand...
The phrase, "the law of Moses" is a convenient and concise way to refer to the Law given to Israel by God through Moses. You're playing with semantics.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#59
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#59
Dino246 said:
The Law as given to Moses was for Israel, not everybody. God never gave the Law to the Chinese, or the Celts, or the Incas. His purpose was that Israel would bear the Saviour, Jesus.
Click to expand...
So was Ruth an Israelite? Just asking the question :)
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#60
Jan 25, 2015
9,225
3,204
113
#60
Dino246 said:
The Law as given to Moses was for Israel, not everybody. God never gave the Law to the Chinese, or the Celts, or the Incas. His purpose was that Israel would bear the Saviour, Jesus.
Click to expand...
The Bible states clearly that there were also other nations present. Not only Israel :)
 
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