If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

[UnitedWithChrist]

Me? You need to eat some meat. I suggest rib eye

1 COR. 3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [2] I HAVE FED YOU WITH MILK, AND NOT WITH MEAT: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. [3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] FOR EVERY ONE THAT USETH MILK IS UNSKILFUL IN THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS: FOR HE IS A BABE. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The two above new testament scriptures tell us we should be teachers of the word but also tells us everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word.

ISAIAH 28 [9] WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, THIS IS THE REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and THIS IS THE REFRESHING: yet they would not hear.

In Hebrews 5 the scripture tells us we should be teachers of the Word but we dont get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. Who are these milk drinkers (verse 12) that dont understand doctrine? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and ON THE SEVENTH DAY HE RESTED, AND WAS REFRESHED.

Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing. And yes, the milk drinkers do refuse to hear that scripture.

GOT MILK?

Quoting Scriptures concerning a sign of the Mosaic Covenant to the Israelites is irrelevant to the New Covenant believer.

See, you are not considering CONTEXT. And, one of the elements of CONTEXT is the covenant that the person is under.

The Mosaic Covenant had two signs, physical circumcision and the Sabbath.

The New Covenant has two signs, baptism and the Lord's Supper.

In each case, there is an initial, entry-level sign or ordinance, and a continuing, remembrance sign or ordinance.

By the way, I don't know if you realize this, but I was taught by Judaizers, so I know most lines of reasoning that Judaizers employ.

And, I think it's is amusing that you think days and diet are the really mature stuff. Those are both external, ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Covenant. They aren't heart issues.

That's the way most Judaizer cults work though...days and diet, days and diet, days and diet, days and diet.

I also think it's amusing because these elements of the Mosaic Law are called "schoolmasters" meant to lead the Jews to the substance of real faith, which is Jesus. This is why Galatians 3-4 is important.

For those who are open-minded, I suggest reading Freedom in Christ, by Meno Kalisher. He is a Messianic Jew.

I also recommend Sabbath in Christ, by Dale Ratzlaff. Dale is an ex-SDA pastor (four generations).

 

[Wall]

Quoting Scriptures concerning a sign of the Mosaic Covenant to the Israelites is irrelevant to the New Covenant believer.

How about quoting scriptures from the new covenant

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

WANT TO BE ONE OF GODS SAINTS
REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and the faith of Jesus

BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

WANT TO ENTER THE CITY - THE 1000yr PERIOD OF REST
REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

FROM THE WRITINGS OF PAUL
1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God.

IS GODS SABBATH COMMANDMENT GRIEVOUS TO YOU
1JOHN.5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.[3] For this is the love of God, that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

How about quoting scriptures from the new covenant

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

WANT TO BE ONE OF GODS SAINTS
REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and the faith of Jesus

BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

WANT TO ENTER THE CITY - THE 1000yr PERIOD OF REST
REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

FROM THE WRITINGS OF PAUL
1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God.

IS GODS SABBATH COMMANDMENT GRIEVOUS TO YOU
1JOHN.5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.[3] For this is the love of God, that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS.

First, you have copied this from other forums. Perhaps they are your work, but perhaps you've simply stolen the list from someone else. But it is not original.

Second, I believe in keeping God's commandments for ME, and not ancient Israel.

It is your claim that the Sabbath applies to New Covenant believers. Colossians 2:16-17 places them in the same class as the Mosaic ceremonial rituals.

Third, you are failing to quote the rest of Matthew 19. Jesus goes on to quote a handful of commandments, as well as a commandment that is part of the Mosaic Covenant. He doesn't mention anything about the Sabbath. He mentions commandments regarding horizontal relationships only, by the way.

Fourth, your quotation from Matthew 5:17-19 is disingenuous, because we know that animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood no longer apply. So, if your claim is that the Mosaic Law continues in its entirety (notice the "not one jot or tittle" remark), then you have to explain why the temple sacrifices and Levitical priesthood has ceased.

Fifth, observance of days and dietary laws are part of the Mosaic Law. This is apparent from Colossians 2:16-17, where the weekly Sabbath, New Moons, and festivals are all mentioned in the same context as "shadows of Christ". Compare the wording to Hebrews 10:1-4 and 9:9-11.

Sixth, it is true that justification is by grace through faith alone. If you deny that, then you are seeking to be justified by your behavior, and you are worse than a Roman Catholic. However, you likely don't understand that evangelicals teach that good works of obedience flow from a changed heart. God changes the heart first, and then the behavior changes. The man doesn't change his behavior to receive a new heart (which is associated with the receipt of the Holy Spirit), but he receives a new heart so his behavior changes.

Most of your claims are addressed by the fact that you are apparently claiming that God's commandments = the Ten Commandments, or some expanded version of your own devising. In reality, it means all of God's commandments to ME.

There is no teaching that the Sabbath is in a separate class as the rest of the Mosaic Law. And, the Mosaic Law no longer applies to believers in the letter. There are spiritual principles undergirding them that would apply though.

I recommend open minded individuals read Acts 15, 2 Cor 3, Gal 3-4, Heb 7-8, Rom 7:1-6, and Eph 2:13-15 in this regard.

But, let's suppose the Sabbath applied in the same sense as ancient Israel. Who would a Sabbathkeeper fellowship with? Judaizers who believe all kinds of kooky stuff? I certainly would not.

I would never have anything to do with the Judaizer cult I was raised and baptized into. They are kooks. Their Sabbathkeeping is simply just one part of their kookery. In fact, it was not even the most serious part of it. They are at war with Christians, declaring them to be false believers, as your rhetoric suggests you believe. I might as well become Jewish. I can only think of one or two Sabbathkeeping groups that are relatively sane, one being the Seventh Day Baptists and the other Jews for Jesus. I am sure there are some sane Messianic Jews too, but most other groups are simply fruitcakes.

 

[Wall]

First, you have copied this from other forums. Perhaps they are your work, but perhaps you've simply stolen the list from someone else. But it is not original.

They are my work. Been doin this for more than 20 yrs. After reading what you wrote above i understand why you want to make Gods 10 commandments void.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

[Wall]

Colossians 2:16-17, where the weekly Sabbath, New Moons, and festivals are all mentioned in the same context as "shadows of Christ". Compare the wording to Hebrews 10:1-4 and 9:9-11.

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {meat and drink offerings} has been blotted out. They were the shadow

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). Hebrews 10{1} says that plain and clear. The Word does not say the sabbath was the shadow of Christ which really makes no sence at all

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear and trembling, thinking they might be next offering. No worries no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

We are no longer under the law concerning the meat and drink offerings{the shadow}. Jesus FULFILLED that portion of the law. Its all grace now! Jesus Himself said “For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed”.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

They are my work. Been doin this for more than 20 yrs. After reading what you wrote above i understand why you want to make Gods 10 commandments void.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

How am I bearing false witness?

By the way, you didn't respond to my analysis.

For every point that a Sabbatarian brings up, it can be refuted.

I was a Sabbatarian Judaizer for ten years, so I know the typical arguments. They are all shallow.

And, by the way, I highly suggest the two books I recommended for anyone who is finding themselves deceived by these guys.

Just to be clear, though, the real issues isn't one's choice in worship days. It's the accompanying attitude, and guys on here definitely have a Judaizer mentality.

I know one guy who is a Seventh Day Baptist that is well balanced. I respect him. If anyone really thinks Saturday is the preferred day of worship, I would recommend them, or Jews for Jesus. But, Seventh Day Adventists, Armstrongites, and many Hebrew Roots Movement/Messianic Jews are just Judaizers. They think they are the real faith, and Christians are just warmed-over Roman Catholics.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {meat and drink offerings} has been blotted out. They were the shadow

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). Hebrews 10{1} says that plain and clear. The Word does not say the sabbath was the shadow of Christ which really makes no sence at all

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear and trembling, thinking they might be next offering. No worries no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

We are no longer under the law concerning the meat and drink offerings{the shadow}. Jesus FULFILLED that portion of the law. Its all grace now! Jesus Himself said “For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed”.

This is so confused, I don't know what to say.

The Mosaic Law, as a whole, was typological of Christ and the New Covenant.

I invite folks to study Hebrews 9:9-11, 10:1-4 and compare the language to Colossians 2:16-17.

It is plain in saying that the entire Mosaic system, including days, food, and offerings, were shadows.

Note, too, that the Judaizers don't claim that the entire Mosaic calendar system is in effect. They usually only claim that the weekly Sabbath and sometimes the festivals are in effect. They dismiss New Moons, sabbatical years, and the Jubilee years.

In other words, they are only selective in the things that they pick, which are still in effect. They usually focus on days and diet. Days and diet. Days and diet. Days and diet.

You would also notice, if you understood the theology of their groups, that there's very little discussion of salvation. It's mostly days and diet. Days and diet. Days and diet. Days and diet.

They have usually also read Alexander Hislop's Two Babylons, and claim that the Church is basically following the Babylonian Mystery Religion. Hislop was not an academic, and he made a lot of false claims in his books, even taking his sources out of context.

Once you realize these things about Sabbathkeepers, you realize how much they are troglydytes who hang around in their caves...they will heave a few boulders from the cave opening, then retreat back into the recesses of the caves to brag about their conquests with their fellow troglodytes...they understand little or nothing about salvation, grace, justice and meaty, deep truths.

Days and diet, days and diet, days, and diet..blah, blah, blah.

 

[Wall]

I invite folks to study Hebrews 9:9-11, 10:1-4 and compare the language to Colossians 2:16-17.

And i invite folks to study Col.2{16} and Ezek. 45

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The above scripture is used by the “many” to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. But what is Col.2{16} really talking about. Let scripture interpret scripture.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres a scripture, same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. No doubt what so ever these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same thing. See how that on those days there was a sin offering made. The blood of Christ is now that offering. Col.2 and Zeke 45 are simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

They are my work. Been doin this for more than 20 yrs. After reading what you wrote above i understand why you want to make Gods 10 commandments void.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

My position is that God's moral law is in effect.

The Mosaic Law is only a typological reflection of this law.

I do not think the Mosaic Law is still in effect. It is simply typological.

The Judaizer thinks that it is not typological and abides by the letter of the law.

He is in the same position as Pharisees.

Christians observe the spirit of the law, and not necessarily the letter of the law.

For instance, a slave in the early NT church could not observe the Sabbath, because they were slaves and not freed men who could observe the Sabbath. Yet, they observed the Sabbath in the sense that Jesus is their rest. Additionally they strive to spend time with God's people when they can.

However, they are not lost because they spent time with God on different days, and were forced by their masters to spend time with God and his people under different circumstances.

Judaizers will not allow for such things. They believe the Mosaic Covenant still applies in the letter of the Law.
I would recommend reading:

Acts 15
2 Cor 3
Rom 7:1-6
Gal 3-4
Heb 7-8
Eph 2:13-15

In regards to this.

The real question is not whether the Sabbath or unclean meat laws apply. The real case is whether the Mosaic Law still applies.

Judaizers say yes.

Paul says no.

By the way, Judaizers are inconsistent. They will pick and choose the items that they believe still applies. They do that, because they HAVE to. They know that the Mosaic Law cannot be observed today, because the Temple and the Mosaic Priesthood no longer exists, and these elements are NECESSARY in order to make their assertions.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

And i invite folks to study Col.2{16} and Ezek. 45

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The above scripture is used by the “many” to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. But what is Col.2{16} really talking about. Let scripture interpret scripture.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres a scripture, same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. No doubt what so ever these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same thing. See how that on those days there was a sin offering made. The blood of Christ is now that offering. Col.2 and Zeke 45 are simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days.

Notice the lack of concern with context. The person knows that it is impossible to fulfill the conditions of the Mosaic Covenant, but he insists that portions of it still apply. For instance, you will find incidences in the Prophets where the Sabbath is still being observed, but in the same context, the New Moons, festivals, animal sacrifices, and Levitical priesthood is being portrayed as still continuing. In fact, even the Temple is still functioning.

To use these verses to prove one practice, while claiming the rest don't apply, is incoherent. The reality is this: the Prophets are teaching a return to the true worship of God, in terms they can understand, which relate to the Mosaic Covenant. However, the intelligent reader must reinterpret the prophets in light of the New Covenant. If he does not do this, he is basically believing nonsense.

Now, the dispensationalist will claim that the Mosaic Law will be followed in the future. The Covenantal theologian, though, will claim that you must reinterpret the prophecies in light of the New Covenant. This is the position I hold. In fact, I believe that the OT Prophets must be interpreted in light of the New Covenant, or you end up with nonsense. The Judaizer picks and chooses what he wants, though, and ignores the rest. For instance, I doubt that Wall observes New Moons, even though the Prophets prophecied that New Moons would be observed in the future.

Realize, too, that guys like Wall likely believe other false things that they are not telling you, which may be things like denying the Trinity, the deity of Christ, or believing in the inspiration of other sources such as the writings of some heretical prophet/prophetess, or he may deny the writings of Paul. Hard to say with Judaizer groups.

 

[Wall]

My position is that God's moral law is in effect.

Really? Is bearing false witness a part of Gods moral law?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Really? Is bearing false witness a part of Gods moral law?

Absolutely not.

Neither is teaching false doctrine such as the Judaizers teach.

 

[Wall]

The Covenantal theologian, though, will claim that you must reinterpret the prophecies in light of the New Covenant. This is the position I hold. In fact, I believe that the OT Prophets must be interpreted in light of the New Covenant, or you end up with nonsense.

That explains a lot

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wall]

Realize, too, that guys like Wall likely believe other false things that they are not telling you, which may be things like denying the Trinity, the deity of Christ, or believing in the inspiration of other sources such as the writings of some heretical prophet/prophetess, or he may deny the writings of Paul. Hard to say with Judaizer groups.

Why would i deny the writings of Paul

Out of the writings of Paul

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture points to one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company

 

[Wall]

from the writings of Paul

ROMANS 11
[1] I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
[7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[11] I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather THROUGH THEIR FALL SALVATION IS COME UNTO THE GENTILES, for to provoke them to jealousy.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, AND THOU, BEING A WILD OLIVE TREE, WERT GRAFFED IN AMONG THEM, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The gentiles (the stangers) are grafted into their tree, the tree of the Whole house of Israel. Because the gentiles are grafted into their tree, they must take hold of the covenants that were given to the whole House of Israel. Including Gods Ten Commandments.

ROMANS 15 [26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. [27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

In Romans we find that the gentiles have been made partakers of the “spiritual things” of the House of Israel.

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that the LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Gods law is spiritual.

 

[Wall]

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

Surely i believe the writings of Paul. They are hard to understand at times and a lot of people {to their own destruction} dont quite get it.

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing from you. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Lol there are no Saturdays or Sundays or Mondays or Tuesdays anymore when the End of Days comes.

 

[lightbearer]

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

Surely i believe the writings of Paul. They are hard to understand at times and a lot of people {to their own destruction} dont quite get it.

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing from you. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

IN regards to Acts 25. The word translated offended is actually the same word for sin. Paul's testimony is that he had not sinned towards the Law of the Jews.

 

[lightbearer]

Lol there are no Saturdays or Sundays or Mondays or Tuesdays anymore when the End of Days comes.

Who told you that. We will be keeping the Sabbath into eternity.
Isa 66:23 From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the LORD.

 

[lightbearer]

And i invite folks to study Col.2{16} and Ezek. 45

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The above scripture is used by the “many” to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. But what is Col.2{16} really talking about. Let scripture interpret scripture.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres a scripture, same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. No doubt what so ever these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same thing. See how that on those days there was a sin offering made. The blood of Christ is now that offering. Col.2 and Zeke 45 are simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days.

Amen and Good morning Let's take a look at Colossians. Most misunderstand Colossians 2:14. Here take a look. The context is forgiveness. It starts in verse 13.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:13-16)

It was the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out. They were against us and contrary to us, not the ordinances themselves but the handwriting to them. These are the judgments, ceremonial and sacrificial laws God mandated for when we broke the ordinances, the laws that pertain to life, God's righteousness. We have been forgiven through Christ (v.13) so they are not needed anymore for judgement. Verse 16 makes this even clearer with the fact that It says let no man therefore judge you. The word "therefore" connects what is about to be said to what was already said. It is a conclusion. Principalities and powers have been spoiled by the cross. No more judgment by man because the handwriting to the ordinances has been blotted out because we have been forgiven already. Praise God!